Register    Login    Forum    FAQ

Board index » Community Discussion » Leagues




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 14 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Running a league.
 Post Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 2:20 pm 
Rookie
Rookie

Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2017 12:32 pm
Posts: 2
So I'm interested in running a league for me and my mates.
What are the general rules people use as everyone moans about balance?!

3points for a win 1 for a draw seems to work.
Maximum number of games per week i'd think 2 but some may prefer 1!
How many weeks should it run for?
Is it worth actually saying you have to play each other team twice by a certain date or unlimited games as long as you stick to max games per week?

Casualties as a tie breaker or team rating? TD's for or against?


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Running a league.
 Post Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 2:39 pm 
Super Star
Super Star

Joined: Wed May 27, 2015 10:38 am
Posts: 983
Location: Paradise Stadium, where the pitch is green and the cheerleaders are pretty.
We have three "leagues" running in parallel.

What we call the "Rookie League" starts with all-new teams, has a fixed schedule, a table (3/1/0), and at the end of the season, the top four teams make the playoffs. (Top seed picks their semifinal opponent). This is how most leagues work.

We also have an "Open League". Any coach can have as many teams in the Open League as they like. Rookie league teams enter the Open League at the end of the rookie season. Everyone plays as much or as little as they like, vs whoever they want.

And we have a "Premier League", intended for advanced teams from the Open league. Teams join to start the season (one per coach), play a fixed schedule, 3/1/0, top four teams make the playoffs.

This has a little bit of "something for everyone", and keeps both prolific players happy and those who only have time for a few games per month.

_________________
"It's 2+ and I have a reroll. Chill out. I've got this!"
Image


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Running a league.
 Post Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 2:56 pm 
Legend
Legend
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 3:59 pm
Posts: 6025
Location: The Fast Lane
maccab5 wrote:
What are the general rules people use as everyone moans about balance?!

If you want balance then everyone play the same team and dont use dice. This is not a "balanced" game.

maccab5 wrote:
3points for a win 1 for a draw seems to work.
Some like 3,1,0 for scoring, others like something else. 2,1,0 or 6,1,0 for example. You need to decide what's best for you and your league.

maccab5 wrote:
Maximum number of games per week i'd think 2 but some may prefer 1!
Again this is up to you and your league. Would they like to play 2 games a week? Would anyone get upset if they only played 1 and everyone else played 2?

maccab5 wrote:
How many weeks should it run for?
How many people are involved? If you have 10 and you are playing everyone twice at 2 games a week then it will last 10 weeks!

maccab5 wrote:
Is it worth actually saying you have to play each other team twice by a certain date or unlimited games as long as you stick to max games per week?
Unlimited games is an Open League. The pro is that anyone can play anytime, the con is that one or two teams get vast leg up on those that do not play as much. Again you need to decide based on your league players.

maccab5 wrote:
Casualties as a tie breaker or team rating? TD's for or against?
I would suggest head to head record first, then total of opponent's scores (aka strength of schedule).


Ultimately it is up to you as the commissioner. You'll need to make a decision and be prepared to amend things to keep as many people happy as possible. Good luck :)

_________________
Image

The Exiles Blood Bowl League and Tournaments use the Icepelt rulebook, for complete BB rules and fluff. Download here.
SW England Regional Co-ordinator for the NAF lunchmoney@thenaf.net
@Lunchmoney_Al for me @ExilesBBLeague for #TeamExiles news


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Running a league.
 Post Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:57 am 
Emerging Star
Emerging Star

Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2012 11:21 pm
Posts: 428
Actually I don't like 3 points for a win and 1 for a draw. The reason we have this was to prevent football teams playing out 'bore-draws' which happened with the old 2 points for a win and 1 for a draw. In a non-professional environment (and where very little would change if you played for a draw or not in BB) there is little point in a biased points scoring system.

Personally I'd go win 4, draw 2, loss 1 and unplayed forfeit loss 0.

This means even if you play you'll score points, where as if you just give up you won't. It also balances nicely in that it's half points for every downgrade.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Running a league.
 Post Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:55 am 
Legend
Legend
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 07, 2009 11:15 am
Posts: 2479
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
harvestmouse wrote:
Actually I don't like 3 points for a win and 1 for a draw. The reason we have this was to prevent football teams playing out 'bore-draws' which happened with the old 2 points for a win and 1 for a draw. In a non-professional environment (and where very little would change if you played for a draw or not in BB) there is little point in a biased points scoring system.

Personally I'd go win 4, draw 2, loss 1 and unplayed forfeit loss 0.

This means even if you play you'll score points, where as if you just give up you won't. It also balances nicely in that it's half points for every downgrade.


This is basically 3 points for a win and 1 for a draw, and then a bonus point for playing.

_________________
League and tournament hosting, blogging and individual forums - all totally free. For the most immersive tabletop sports community experience around, check out theendzone.co


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Running a league.
 Post Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:31 am 
Super Star
Super Star

Joined: Wed May 27, 2015 10:38 am
Posts: 983
Location: Paradise Stadium, where the pitch is green and the cheerleaders are pretty.
Also, if you're in a league in which everyone plays everyone else, I highly highly recommend setting a fixed schedule.

Otherwise it's a massive advantage to coaches who can play most of their games quickly. Their teams will advance faster and they'll end up playing most of their games against less advanced teams.

The best way to do it is to create a generic schedule "Team A", "Team B", and so on. Shuffle the weeks so one lucky bastard doesn't play everyone the week after they've been bashed by the Orcs. Then, preferably with as many leaguemates watching as possible, draw names out of a hat or roll dice to fill in the generic names with real teams from your league.

_________________
"It's 2+ and I have a reroll. Chill out. I've got this!"
Image


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Running a league.
 Post Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:58 am 
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: Mon May 19, 2014 10:33 pm
Posts: 244
I think that the system my club uses is the best one that I have seen. There is a fixed list of people who you are due to play based on the number of games that can fit into the desired season length. So if you want 2 seasons a year assume 26 weeks but take a few off for holiday season and playoffs. This gives you about 20 weeks. Figure that people can make 1 game every 2 weeks which sets your regular season at 10 games. You are much better off setting a preferred length and then working backwards. If a player is hating his team then they need to know that the next season and a restart for them is not far away.

Create the divisions required so that people play the required number of others. This may result in not everyone playing the same people. If you give some expected numbers then I can help with specific systems that will work fairly well.

Do not set a fixed order. This kills leagues. If one person is a bit slow the delay ripples through the rest of the league and you will massively over run. However do set rules on how many games people are allowed to have played. So if you set 10 games in 20 weeks then say nobody is allowed to be outside 25%-75% range. So at 10 weeks into the league nobody must have played fewer than 3 games or more than 7 games. This helps prevent large mismatches.

You can also stop people picking opponents by introducing challenge systems. Things like if you have offered a game to 2 people in a row then you must accept the next person who challenges you. Generally pickers should be spoken to by the commissioner as well. You can have it so that people post availability for the night and the commissioner arranges who plays who.

It's not a perfectly fair system and it can allow some to look to abuse it if you don't keep an eye on them. But it is extremely practical in getting through seasons quickly and maximising the number of games played on any given night.

For points i prefer 2-1-0, but 3-1-0 is also fine. Just have the players vote on it because it's not a big enough deal to spend a lot of time worrying about.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Running a league.
 Post Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:45 pm 
Emerging Star
Emerging Star

Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2012 11:21 pm
Posts: 428
Shteve0 wrote:
harvestmouse wrote:
Actually I don't like 3 points for a win and 1 for a draw. The reason we have this was to prevent football teams playing out 'bore-draws' which happened with the old 2 points for a win and 1 for a draw. In a non-professional environment (and where very little would change if you played for a draw or not in BB) there is little point in a biased points scoring system.

Personally I'd go win 4, draw 2, loss 1 and unplayed forfeit loss 0.

This means even if you play you'll score points, where as if you just give up you won't. It also balances nicely in that it's half points for every downgrade.


This is basically 3 points for a win and 1 for a draw, and then a bonus point for playing.


Errr no. It's 4 points for a win, 2 points for a draw, 1 point for a played loss and 0 points for an unplayed loss. Each downgrade is exactly half. 3 points for a win and 1 for a draw is 1/3rd and 1 point for a played game would be a draw. It's totally different.

3 points for a win and 1 for a draw really doesn't compute well. It was made for football to make TV more exciting for spectators. As a scoring system it is too biased and unnecessary for a game like BB where receiving and playing for a 0-0 draw is not an option.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Running a league.
 Post Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:07 am 
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: Mon May 19, 2014 10:33 pm
Posts: 244
harvestmouse - the 4/2/1 system is the same as 3/1/0 + 1 point for each game played. It will produce the same order and points difference between teams as the 3/1/0 system.

For example:
A: W3, D3, L1
B: W4, D2, L1
C: W3, D2, L2
D: W2, D2, L3
E: W1, D1, L5
F: W3, D1, L3
G: W2, D4, L1
H: W2, D1, L4

In a 3/1/0 system we would have:
B @ 14pts
A @ 12pts
C @ 11pts
F @ 10pts
G @ 10pts
D @ 8pts
H @ 7pts

In your 4/2/1 system we would have:
B @ 21pts
A @ 19pts
C @ 18pts
F @ 17pts
G @ 17pts
D @ 15pts
E @ 14pts

Which is the same as the 3/1/0 system but +7points for each team for having played 7 games. The relative differences are immaterial in an additive points based mechanism, only the differential in absolute points between them, which remains the same. The only time your system makes a difference is for non-players who effectively have a point deducted in a 3/1/0 system.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Running a league.
 Post Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 3:50 am 
Emerging Star
Emerging Star

Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2012 11:21 pm
Posts: 428
No it isn't.........maybe with some league numbers, but not all........I win 4 and lose 4 I end up with 16 points. I draw 8 I end up with 16 points. In the 3 point system I win 4 and lose 4 I end up with 12 points. I draw 8 I end up with 8 points.

On top of this, one of the big problems with league is players losing motivation half way through the season and not finishing their games. If you get a point for turning up and playing but still losing, then that helps a bit with the motivation. This system would also have an impact and change of point scores over a 3-1-0 system.

Example I win 2 and don't turn up for the other 6 I end up with 6 points or 8 points. Where as a player that plays all 8 but loses all 8 would have 0 or 8 points.

It's totally different..........albeit most fair points systems will have similar results.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Running a league.
 Post Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 7:41 am 
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: Mon May 19, 2014 10:33 pm
Posts: 244
harvestmouse wrote:
No it isn't.........maybe with some league numbers, but not all........I win 4 and lose 4 I end up with 16 points.


If you win 4 and lose 4 you end up with 20 points (unless you didn't show up for the losses).


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Running a league.
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 4:08 am 
Legend
Legend
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 07, 2009 11:15 am
Posts: 2479
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
harvestmouse wrote:
No it isn't


Yes it is. 4 / 2 / 1 is identical to (3+1) / (1+1) / (0+1) in every respect. We play it locally, and indeed it's the default for OBBLM. This is not a new system.

_________________
League and tournament hosting, blogging and individual forums - all totally free. For the most immersive tabletop sports community experience around, check out theendzone.co


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Running a league.
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 11:56 am 
Super Star
Super Star
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 03, 2006 10:58 pm
Posts: 799
Location: Cambridgeshire
4-2-1 has a very slight benefit over 3-1-0 in that it encourages coaches to play games and not concede or lose them by default, as by conceding/forfeiting you can allocate 0 points.

But not a massive difference.

In the WIL on Fumbbl, we ran a 5-2-1(-0) system to encourage wins. As you can imagine, it had mixed reviews!!

_________________
NAFC 2014. Glowworm: "PeteW is definitely hotter than Lunchmoney."
Image


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Running a league.
 Post Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 11:25 am 
Experienced
Experienced
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2011 6:07 pm
Posts: 147
Location: Cambridge, UK
At the end of the day the decision is yours. There is no right or wrong way of running a league and using a different format than other leagues. It's what works best for you (since you are doing all the admin work as well!) but also what works for your coaches.

Over the years we have tried many different formats which some coaches liked and other didn't. It's all a balancing act which has taken a few years to get just right. We are now at that point where we have the right balance and I find that coaches are enjoying themselves more than ever. I suggest starting with a simple format which plays out in a matter of a couple of months to see how it goes. Get feedback form the coaches for any comments and push on from there.

Currently we have a NFL light version which you can see on our website (www.hdwsbbl.co.uk when it's not down.....) which is easier than me explaining it in a massive long post. But as you can see we have tried many different formats and again you can view these on the website under competitions. We have always run a scheduled league (with very minor issues) and it's worked great. As part of a wargames group playing every other meeting works well for us playing only one match. Again it's all different circumstances for different leagues.

One thing I will add which I highly recommend is to ensure you have a decent platform for the league. Be it a website, facebook or something else to keep coaches up to date and to also encourage new members to join.

Good luck, I am more than happy to offer any other advice if you want it.

_________________
HDWSBBL Commissioner


Top 
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
 
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 14 posts ] 

Board index » Community Discussion » Leagues


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users

 
 

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to: