New "bowl" box by years end AKA Dreadball

[SBG]

Like others have said, this is not cutting it for me. Don't like the look of it.

Then again, if my local game store had an open box and I could sit and try it, it might all change!

The same could be said for elfball here: I got into BB because the local store put on a league and and had a few extra teams you could borrow to try different races/gamestyles. I'd like to be able to do the same with elfball!

Fred

[Shteve0]

This is Chris the person, not the Impact partner.

What really chaps my ass red is that the same community that won't even try Elfball because it has a different field, hex bases, only six players and turns that don't involve every team member moving....seem to have no problem with it if its put out by a named company like Mantic. Nothing against Mantic, of course.

Well, I'll try and come up with several reasons why this may be the case. some or all of these may be rubbish - please judge for yourself.

1) sci fi is considered rather less geeky than high fantasy, so has a broader street appeal, and a lower collateral shame barrier
2) mantic is aiming squarely at stealing customers away from GW with its main body range, a group accustomed to impulse buying and unaccustomed to market research
3) elfball has better miniatures, but dreadball has better art
4) dreadball blatantly capitalises on the Tron franchise
5) many buyers are likely to purchase this to harvest the plastic miniatures, or as a standalone set
6) many new visitors to Elfball will be familiar with BB and so will suspect it's a sham game system created to pirate miniatures; many new visitors to Dreadball will be unaware of BB and so have no such hesitation

Essentially, for some reason I can't quite put my finger on, grass pitches are not nearly as cool as futuristic game pits. There's something a bit 'dancing around the maypole' about Elfball too. The name, perhaps?

Please don't be offended by anything above.

[Dr. Von Richten]

Why would I want to play a game (Elfball, or Dreadball or whatever) that is so similar to a game I already play?

If I had the time, money and community for another mini's game, it would be something very different, probably a skirmish game like Malifaux or Warmahordes (or Necromunda), or perhaps a full-fledged wargame, but not another team sports game.

Sorry, but the whole thing just seems pointless to me except as a way to make sure GW can't sue your ass for making Blood Bowl figures.

[Aflo]

Yeh I don't get the hype for this. Just doesn't do much for me in terms of aesthetics.

[Lychanthrope]

I have to say that if you think Elfball is like BB you haven't played it. Yes, some of teams similar, but it plays nothing like BB. If you try playing with a BB mindset you are going to lose. It plays very differently. I understand that some won't like it or even give it a try, but it's not like BB.


Back to the topic at hand:

The idea that these guys are trying to steal part, if not all, of the GW market is NOT a bad thing for me. I'll welcome GW's loss. I'll give it a try because I like new games in this genre (I've bought several from Impact) and I welcome a chance to help someone steal part, or all, of GW's market share. Not a +1 guy for GW at all.

[Wispa]

I was/am in two minds about this myself.

I don't have a problem with the game theme, or their interruption/implementation of it. It looks like a lot of love and effort went into it. I'm a sucker for new minis/teams to paint anyway and sometimes it's nice to play something everyone is starting from scratch with rather than newbie vs decades of experience.

On the other hand, I expect like many of you I have more games than time, and I know that although I'll get caught up in the excitement of the "new", realistically I'm not sure I'd play it a huge amount after the initial excitement is over. It's a fair chunk of change for potentially casual playing and some minis.

In the end I know I'm guilty of getting caught up in the Kickstarter excitement itself, will it reach next stretch, look at all the shiny new goodies etc, so I have backed it. Calling it an early Christmas present to myself and it'll be something new to play/discuss with my mates over Christmas anyway if nothing else.

Would never really know what it was like without trying it so will give it a go anyway I guess.

[Chris]

Well, I've read a load of the gameplay and rules bits and actually I reckon I like it. The game plays faster than blood bowl (30-45 minutes according to some), seems a lot simpler (14 skill picks I believe) and I actually like sci fantasy stuff. The dwarfs look naff, but then again I don't like Mantic dwarves, or for that matter the new GW ones. (My fav's remain 2nd ed BB, sometimes stretching to 3rd ed if the other teams are similarly oversized.) Skaven are acceptable and a different take (fast but not that agile).
The core mechanic is you have a fixed racial target, say 5+ and a variable dice pool - so say base 3 dice modified by more of less dice depending on how hard you are making it for yourself. Roll the dice, count the successes, roll anything that gets a 6 again for extra successes and go from there. Injury is removed from the game, you are on the pitch, recovering for a bad hit, or dead.
Jake Thorton has form as a designer of simple fast games and this seems to stick with his design philosophy.

I am looking at this as a hopefully ideal game to play with nephews/at new games clubs with younger players as I wander the world. For $150 I seem to get everything I need. And who knows maybe I will be able to graduate people into the more complex world of blood bowl?

[spubbbba]

More people would play Elfball if it was professionally produced in a shiny professionally illustrated box, etc. Yes, I know, that doesn't change the game any, but that's what draws people in to try it. I'm sure the partners know this as well.
Just wondering why Impact doesn't do a kickstarter for a shiny new version of Elfball (including 2 plastic teams)?

I think pretty much this, Mantic are a decent sized company in the miniature market, tiny compared to GW but growing rapidly. They have a lot more clout than Impact as proved by the success of the kickstarter, and few people have even played the game yet.

I have to say the elfball game does suffer from looking cheap when you compare it to Dreadball the board, logo, artwork and miniatures all look like a hobby effort rather than a professional board game.
So regardless of the merits of the 2 games Dreadball will be more appealing to outsiders, the sci-fi aspect helps differentiate it from Bloodbowl and opens it up to fans of Tron, Speedball or other sci-fi classics. I hope they do go down a more original route for other teams and move away from GW style universe. Aliens can look like anything you can imagine so it is a little lazy to have space orcs, dwarfs and skaven.

Oh and the name Elfball is really, really bad. Both Dreadball and Bloodbowl are not great either but this is by far the worst.

I have had a low opinion of Mantic prior to this as I thought 90% of the models were poor and unoriginal, but this game does look like a great product and I am tempted to get it if only for the models.

[MattDakka]

Oh and the name Elfball is really, really bad. Both Dreadball and Bloodbowl are not great either but this is by far the worst.

So gamers are so silly and so narrow-minded to judge games by their name and look?
I don't think that tabletop gamers care (or should care) about a boardgame's name, as long as it has a solid ruleset and it's fun to play.
Elfball can be misleading (I thought it was a fantasy football Elf-oriented game before knowing it!), but after reading the bg you understand why it's called so.
About looking cheap... I think that the most important part of a game is its ruleset, not its look.
Yes, I like to see good artwork and miniatures but it's not essential, if the game itself is fun to play and balanced.

[spubbbba]

Gamers are just as susceptible to marketing as any other demographic. It doesn’t matter how great the rules of a game are, you need to attract interest so customers will take the time to find out.

In fact us gamers do seem to fall for “shiny toy syndrome” and impulse buying quite a lot, GW seem convinced that their rumour clampdown has been good for sales.
Branding and packaging are a huge part of selling a product, if you get that right you can charge more for an equally good or even superior competing product if they have a less desired brand.

Mantic are bigger so have more clout than impact so can promote their game to more people. Their game is more visually appealing with the models you get with it, the board, the packaging and the logo.

Names are important and that is often the 1st thing you come across so you need a brand name to pique curiosity or inspire their imagination.

[DixonCider]

GRRRR I like the space skaven, just built and painted a team. Ah well, birthday and Christmas are coming

[Dr. Von Richten]

I have to say that if you think Elfball is like BB you haven't played it. Yes, some of teams similar, but it plays nothing like BB. If you try playing with a BB mindset you are going to lose. It plays very differently. I understand that some won't like it or even give it a try, but it's not like BB.

I'm sure it's different from Blood Bowl. Point is, it's another 'fantasy team sports' game, which makes it already too similar to Blood Bowl for me to invest the time, money and energy in that is needed to learn and play it in any more than the most casual of casual ways, totally aside from the fact that I don't know anyone in my circles of gaming friends that plays this game.

[mrinprophet]

Dr. V... I totally get your perspective. Believe me, I have a large collection of games that don't get enough play. I completely understand that for those that have limited gaming time you'd not want to two games of a similar genre. This I understand. What I had an issue with is the people that that won't try Elfball because it looks different (hex bases, single scoring hex, six players, less than full team movement, conditional dice rolls) but will try Dreadball which has exact same features.

[Cedric]

Well, my opinion is exactly the same as "DR Von Richten"... I just never looked at Elfball cause I already have a Fantasy football game that I like a lot, which is named Blood Bowl. I don't say Elfball is a bad game, just that I have Blood Bowl and don't want another "similar" game. Maybe if my friends had started to play Elfball I would have tried it and gotten addicted to it... but so far I have only been looking at Elfball miniatures, not the game itself.
On the other hand, to me, Dreadball is a new game, which in my mind will be different from Blood Bowl. It's not only a football game like BB but it had sci-fi in it!!! I know this sounds stupid but this is really how I see/feel it. And I don't think I would have bought it if it had been another fantasy football game...

As for Dreadball, I backed it up and I'm following all the things they add everyday to my pledge as Striker And I have to say it is pretty exciting. I don't know how the game itself will be, but as far as I can see I like some of the mechanics. And anyway for sure a 45 minutes game sounds enticing. I also like the look of some miniatures (though not the Dwarves). So I'm really looking forward to see it.

[Khail]

Honestly it comes down to marketing, plain and simple. Mantic has a lot more resources to throw at making Dreadball shinier and prettier than Elfball ever was, plus a Sci-Fi setting to differentiate it from Blood Bowl.

And they're riding high off a successful Kickstarter (Kings of War), and just got a boost from Penny Arcade, both of which go miles towards increasing their audience.