€Bowl 2013 rules

[Oventa]

Like Niebling I think that waiving the any table/trait/double skill really changes a lot - and unfortunately it hits many of the same teams that are struck by the 1050TW.
It removes at least two teams (IMO) that could have worked otherwise at 1050 (namely CD & Necro). Teams with expensive players & RRs are hard hit by this.
Since CD are now out of the option - Amazons are now even stronger than before (and they were strong) - and further boosted by the lower tw as they didn´t really need that extra money anyway, is just one example of a chain reaction that works (I think) against intentions.

Interesting.
I find cd still very strong with These rules and Amazon on the other hand now a bit less (due to front loaded skills).
So you see, people might indeed end up choosing different teams.

[Elyoukey]

[...].

Interesting.
I find cd still very strong with These rules and Amazon on the other hand now a bit less (due to front loaded skills).
So you see, people might indeed end up choosing different teams.

Not to enter the roster debate, but amazon do lose 1 player in 14 which is almost nothing when other roster (lizards) lost the very basic things (1 reroll or the apo) and the whole roster will struggle because of this. The 6 skills may counter act this but we don't know it for sure. Blodbowl is not an exact science i think several tournements and a lot of experience are needed to make a format stable. The more i ear and speak about this format and the more i get different opinions about each roster, this for me does not mean that the format is stable, it means that there is no consensus and no one knows exactelly what it will give, it may end up with 2-3 rosters being overpowered while all the other become ok. So the format itself should be discussed in the forum with the captain. Question has already been asked : is the eurobowl the right place to test a new format ?

it is like if the ATP announced that Wimbledon would be played on granit, and orgas say "o guies you are all very good tennismen you can handle this", i don't think it would be well received.

[Purplegoo]

We're pretty convinced you'd see less races used at 1.05 (along with, more importantly, less interesting BB) as well, but the wider point, as Elyoukey says, is about the EB not being broken (nor the place to test new things). So why fix it?

Seems we should have shouted louder about tiers and seeded rounds last year if it was up for debate!

But anyway, let's not get too bogged down on either specific TV or what happened in the past here. We've got the chance to talk about it as captains (and perhaps vote?), so perhaps we should channel through that outlet.

[Elyoukey]

(nor the place to test new things)

This also deserved to be discussed in the captain corner, the eurobowl is the melting of the best of the best of all european coaches, if there is a broken part in the rules it will be detected there. So it may be the best bloodbowl lab one can dream of.

But i am no captain so those are just inputs.

[babass]

it is like if the ATP announced that Wimbledon would be played on granit, and orgas say "o guies you are all very good tennismen you can handle this", i don't think it would be well received.

Actually, the surface of Wimbledon was almost as slow these last year as the one of Roland Garros: it was changed by the atp, to make nadal able to win this tourney against Federer, and because most of the tennis-specialist think that "tennis on slow surfaces" are more "spectacular" / telegenic. (in the same time, the Queens kept his normal surface...)

ps: please don't consider my message as an argument for or against TV105: i won't participate to the eurobowl.

[Beppe#2]

 
The opinion of Team Italy:
 
I talked with the other guys and we think that the only naivety that Austrians made was not to talk with other captains before changing the rules and that they did so a little bit late.
They’re the host country and they have the right to change the rules, as others already did before us. The first 3 €B were played at team rating 100 with 1 skill given after each match. We brought the team rating to 110 in 2006 at €B in Riolo Terme and, as long I can remember, we didn’t vote for that change. In 2008 the Spanish introduced the Swiss pairings for both teams and players and this change was strongly wanted by everyone. In 2009 we didn’t change anything. In 2010 the French changed the skill allotment (3 before the 1st match and the other 2+1 before the 4th) and introduced (after the captains voted it) a strange method of pairings for players. Finally in 2012 the Danish introduced the tiers and the 1st match pairing groups.
As you can see there have been minor and major changes through the years and everything was made for a reason. Turin already explained his reasons, so we think there is nothing to discuss about it: for us the rules are already set and we’ll restart training with this new ruleset. We feel that there have been some major changes (the absence of the double is the biggest one), but the changes are for everybody: we’re all on the same  boat and none will get advantage from these new rules. Changing again rules now is useless and it will take a long time. Again, there’s nothing wrong with this ruleset: a lot of races can be played and we’re already thinking if tier 1 teams (pact, slann, elves, etc.) are worthy to be taken into consideration. So we don’t think we should change rules, neither discussing if they’re to change or not. It’s late and every team needs time to restart the training.
Every discussion should be left for next €B hosts: our advice for them is to discuss with other captains any intended modifications to actual ruleset, before changing it. The forum could be good for that and we should use it for every matter worth to be discussed by team captains.

[mepmuff]

stuff

+1

I don't see the changes as major. Yes, the top races will change, but surely all the powergaming nations will figure out which overpowered rosters to bring? All in all I think it's still a very conservative ruleset.

[Turin]

I'm glad, not everybody is offended by the changes

I've sent Darkson a list for the captain's room. Even if the result would be that the rules stand as posted, some issues that go beyond this year's €Bowl have been raised, which we should discuss anyway.

[Da_Great_MC]

Speaking for Belgium...

We don't mind the rules change.

But we do feel it's a shame that these changes were communicated so late in the season. Like a lot of other countries, we were set on tv110 when deciding on our teams (which happened in March). Some of us will need to do their homework again.

[Buck's]

We will of course adapt to the new rules and I am convinced that we will all have a great weekend.
I just believe it's a strange move to announce in January that the rules will be almost the same than in Denmark 2012 and to finally change them now. As I said, in France, coaches were elected by their peers and votes would have been different with this ruleset.

A big thank you to Turin and to your team for your commitment to make us have a great weekend. I look forward to it!

[Turin]

To comment on that point: in January we were starting to get some things done, the rules were then not part of it. While in the early stages we thought about rules like in Denmark, we announced them to be similar, but had that under the section of "what is yet to be decided" instead of "what we know for sure (98% certainty)". The reason was, that we were expecting it but later on decided to go a slightly different was.
It, moreover, was quite late that some of these changes were decided upon. We would have liked to have decided on the rules much earlier, like everybody else, just it did not happen. That's one thing, we have to take the blame.

As for the missing trait for all but the lowest tier:
1. it is a way to give those teams a push
2. the teams will become "purer", thus not so much able to balance their inherent weaknesses.

[Purplegoo]

Just a question on the captain's discussion, then, I presume we will set out fully what we think (I've tried not to do this here and clutter the thread) and have a more in depth talk. It now seems there are a few 'pro' posters as well as the early 'con's; if this continues after talking about it, I assume we have a straight vote on the changes in question?

We are obviously going to have a great time regardless, but I think it would be good to outline how this is going to be resolved before we talk about it, otherwise it seems a bit moot us discussing it at all?

[Darkson]

Got the list from Turin. I'll try and get it done today, but no promises, as I'm out for a meal tonight.

[kewan]

Spanish team announcement

We realize something, this year people is training hard, and competition will be hardest ever seen, several teams practice during months, coaches prepare their teams, almost professionalize the teams, and we've decide to do the same.

We've just started our trainning for this:

http://www.pointers.at/fotos/Datw%20Fly ... 0copy.html

Competition, will start Sunday night after the tournament, if you're interested to have a great time, just do it, inscribe your team, professionalize your stomach and your liver and join to the Spanish team trainning, you'll regret not having done this

Finally RamtutIII can't travel with us, so Kerrunch replaces Ramtut III.

[BeerBeer]

looks like finnish team practicing, awesome