Pact in short term (12 ex playoff) league - chosen MVP

Shteve0 · Post by **Shteve0** » Sat Mar 02, 2013 5:19 am

Hi guys

Our local league kicks off on Monday and I'm down to play Khemri, though I suspect I'll end up sitting out the first round and waiting for a player who can't make week 1 for my first game (Orcs - ouch). The league will be 12 games plus each team will play in up to three rounds of playoffs. Currently the team looks to be Orcs x 2, Khorne, Lizards, Chaos, Nurgle, Vampire, Dark Elf, Goblins.

I'm sorely tempted by the potential of a switch to Pact. I'm thinking to try out the following:

Roster:

1 Chaos Ogre
1 Dark Elf (this short term, I can't risk playing without him)
9 Marauder
1 Goblin (twelfth man)
4 reroll
1 coach
1 cheerleader

Has anyone tried out a Pact team in a similar league? I've never even fielded them in a game (I think I played against them once) and so the rest of this is pure theorybowl.

Development:

My thinking is that I'd want a leader marauder ASAP to take me up to 5.55 rerolls per half (with the coach and cheer, and averaging 2 kickoffs per half), then look to have some fun. Since our league takes chosen MVPs, the Maruaders can reasonably expect to receive them all, as and when they need them.

Marauders will get a leader immediately, then a thrower started (sure hands, accurate, strong arm), with the others split between Guarders (Block/Guard/SF - dodge on doubles) and Blitzers (Block, MB, Claw).

Goblin depends on first skillup. Doubles gets wrestle (or strip ball?) then horns. +AG takes +AG and cackles all the way to Big Hand, though lord knows how I'm going to get hold of the ball. Normals... I guess two heads, but then what?

Dark Elf is a short term ball carrier fix until I can skill up a thrower marauder. I'm not sure how to progress him; though I guess as the AG4 player on the team, he's going to get a couple of skills fairly quickly even without MVPs. Pass block + Very Long Legs + Extra Arms?

I'm not usually a big guy fan, but I guess Guard/SF is a good option here, and a purchase of the Troll once the money's freed up (to fill the roster at 13 for playoffs), then guarding him up too, is a reasonable plan.

Thoughts appreciated! I'm leaning more and more towards Pact, because I think it'll be a fun challenge. On the other hand, I don't know what I'm doing...

Cheers

Steve

Overhamsteren · Post by **Overhamsteren** » Sat Mar 02, 2013 12:59 pm

I think 3 big guys, elf and 2 rerolls(+goblin or 40k cash) can start really strong, with a bit of luck you could keep up the steam for 12 games and hopefully your opponents wont have too many skills in the end which seems to be the bane of league pact.

Don't worry about the rerolls just 3d blitz with mino almost ALL THE TIME!!

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Mon Mar 04, 2013 1:52 am

My roster of choice is:

1 Chaos Ogre
1 Chaos Troll
1 Dark Elf Renegade
9 Marauders (12 men)
3 TRRs
1 AC, 1 CL

Pact really like winning Brilliant Coaching and Cheering Fans, and those kinds of outcomes matter more against novice teams. Everything else is pretty straightforward: you're AV8, bash, low on skill: 12 men and 3 RRs can make a major impact.

Shteve0 · Post by **Shteve0** » Mon Mar 04, 2013 4:27 am

Cool, thanks Matt. I can certainly see that roster, and I'm coming round to the same way of thinking.

What would you make of swapping a marauder out for a goblin and 10k banked for apoth? I like the idea of a goblin with two heads as a squirming anti stall option, or TTM if things go belly up. What do you reckon?

pauli42 · Post by **pauli42** » Mon Mar 04, 2013 1:10 pm

I tried it once and my main issue was the lack of block and the slow skill progression of the marauders. They get killed or injured to fast without block. But its a realy nice team but skilling them up in a short or bashy league is tough!

One hint: always calculate the risk of a turnover and not of success *G*

This is my team and the end of saison...not much left....St. Pauli Renegades

But i had fun playing them and i learned a lot!

Chris · Post by **Chris** » Mon Mar 04, 2013 2:42 pm

With a chosen MVP I would be tempted by the minotaur. Yes he is a game loser, however you can skill him up as soon as he gets a cas and wild animal means he doesn't lose his tackle zone.

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Mon Mar 04, 2013 2:50 pm

Shteve0 wrote:Cool, thanks Matt. I can certainly see that roster, and I'm coming round to the same way of thinking.

What would you make of swapping a marauder out for a goblin and 10k banked for apoth? I like the idea of a goblin with two heads as a squirming anti stall option, or TTM if things go belly up. What do you reckon?

Sure. Any Pact roster that isn't dependent on some specific balance always carries the note "add Goblin and/or Skaven Renegades to taste." You could also nix the reserve and AC/CL and the reserve in favor of a fourth TRR (keep reading, you'll see I rec a little riskiness with rookie Pact in chosen-MVP format).

In 12 games, I would avoid getting at all cute with skill selection. Build elf as carrier/distributor, Block up your Marauders, Guard for the big guys. Don't think about combos or stacking until you get to the second skill, work on scoring with the guy who can use the points. Elf is really good for rookie teams in chosen MVP format, because he helps you get Comps.

MVPs are for Marauders. You have a grotesque skill deficit to overcome, and chosen MVP means you can do it quickly if you do it strategically. Comp with 0 and 5 SPP guys, bash with 1-4 SPP guys, score with 0 and 3+ SPP guys. Once you have the skills you really need, lay off the gimmicks (and if you bought a fourth TRR, fire it).

That's some very bashy opposition. I'd want one Tackle guy pretty quickly, but otherwise I'd focus on Guard for second-skills. That may be a style thing, though: I like to bash with ST3 even into heavier bash, and it's not for the faint-of-heart. Blodge on the elf would be quite nice, I must say.

Hitonagashi · Post by **Hitonagashi** » Mon Mar 04, 2013 4:40 pm

mattgslater wrote:My roster of choice is:

1 Chaos Ogre
1 Chaos Troll
1 Dark Elf Renegade
9 Marauders (12 men)
3 TRRs
1 AC, 1 CL

Pact really like winning Brilliant Coaching and Cheering Fans, and those kinds of outcomes matter more against novice teams. Everything else is pretty straightforward: you're AV8, bash, low on skill: 12 men and 3 RRs can make a major impact.

I play the Mino as well in a FUMBBL league, but it's purely to handicap myself. If you want to play competitively, a wizard is far better than the Mino.

That said, I do like running the Skaven and the Goblin, especially in the short term. My Skaven gets Wrestle (easy enough to skill him), and acts as my sweeper, and the goblin is good before people get tackle (for assists), and even when they get it, I've won one game on an Ogre TTM already (4 games in). It makes a good emergency plan.

Smeborg · Post by **Smeborg** » Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:57 am

I like:

3 Big Guys
3 Renegades
5 Marauders
2 RR
Apoth

and Leader as first normal Marauder skill-up.

I am not in the camp that finds the Minotard a hindrance on this team. I think he's an asset from the start.

Hope that helps.

Shteve0 · Post by **Shteve0** » Tue Mar 05, 2013 2:57 am

Thanks guys! All real food for thought.

Re: the 'tard debate, this will be my first serious foray into loner, or even dice roll negatraits (have played a lot with dwarves, amazon, ogre-less humans, undead and, to a lesser extent, khemri) - hence my original build of an Ogre as the only big guy. I worry about being able to handle two BGs straight off, let alone all three!

I'm also keen to see the goblin as a wildcard option and fear the skaven's AV7 in such a bash-centric league. Is that too narrow a view?

Smeborg - that's a brave lineup! Unfortunately I doubt I'm a strong enough coach to do it justice, at this stage

So now thinking troll (guard, tents); ogre (guard, grab); delf (blodge or wrodge?); goblin (2heads, sure feet); 8 marauder (1 leader, accurate, strong arm) (3 block, guard, foul app) (2 block, mb, claw) (2 horns, frenzy, tackle); 3RR; CL/AC, 10k banked.

Grateful for critique!

pauli42 · Post by **pauli42** » Tue Mar 05, 2013 8:06 am

Looks fine and i still like to see horns on the darkelf with block. 2d Blitz on a ball carrier and a 2+ pick up. So my next dark elf ball hunter will look like this: Block, Horns, Tackle, Dodge
The skaven is with his MV7 a nice safety just add wrestle and tackle.
A goblin with D. Player/Sneaky Git is also a valid option.

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Tue Mar 05, 2013 1:42 pm

Overall look is good. A couple things.

1) Tents is a double for a Pact big guy
2) You don't need a thrower. The only P skill that is anything more than cute or quaint on this team is Leader.
3) Blodge Elf. Wrestle is for Marauders, this guy's a carrier.

Enjoy!

spubbbba · Post by **spubbbba** » Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:45 pm

mattgslater wrote:2) You don't need a thrower. The only P skill that is anything more than cute or quaint on this team is Leader.

+1 on this, you really shouldn’t try and make a specialist thrower in a short term league. In fact I don’t think it’s worth the TV at all for Pact or any team to spend more than 2 skills max on throwing. Sure hands is not an awful option later on if the DE renegade gets taken out of the game.

Focus on the basics such as block, guard and MB. I’d be tempted by the minotaur, you are the only team that can have 3 big guys and most of your players are identical to human linemen when they are rookies. The extra strength may help you stay ahead in the block war and some frenzied MB 3 dice blocks make the mino less unreliable at low TV.

If you want to be lame give the MVP to the 1st marauder to get any spp’s and give him MB and then every MVP so he can get claw and PO asap.

Jimmy Fantastic · Post by **Jimmy Fantastic** » Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:54 pm

spubbbba wrote:If you want to be lame give the MVP to the 1st marauder to get any spp’s and give him MB and then every MVP so he can get claw and PO asap.

Hells yeah this is obvs the best play, Cpomb in 6 games max!

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:02 pm

Ya, for straight kill-power, big guys are overrated. Remember to multiply all that awesome goodness by *5/6. And then on a rookie team, you have to compare it to the TRR and whatnot it replaces. If you want to build your big guys, you either have to get lucky on Cas or take MVPs out of the mouths of Marauders, which means less Block, less MB, less Claw.

You might go for a Mino later, though.

Killstacking right out the gate (MB, C, PO on all or many players) is fine. It's most emphatically not the only way (AnagramMATTic Shock have got to 17-5-6 in Ranked FUMBBL play with no Claw or PO to date, just spamming Block, Guard, and MB plus a little toolbox stuff), but if you aren't here to make friends, you could be ready to do a lot of damage by the time the tournament comes around.

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