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 Post subject: TV110k Goblin Team (EB2016 Rules)
 Post Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:51 pm 
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I haven't played goblins in tournaments yet and I really like the new star player Madcap Miggz, so why not combine the two?
I was thinking of using this roster. Any thought and/or feedback?

2 Trolls (Leader; Break Tackle or Guard)
8 Goblins (4 Side Step; Diving Tackle)
Pogoer (Sure Feet)
Chainsaw
Bomber (HMP)
Fanatic
Madcap Miggz
2 Rerolls
Bribe

Too few bribes?
Needs more rerolls?
Troll skills?
Bomber not worth it?

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 Post subject: Re: TV110k Goblin Team (EB2016 Rules)
 Post Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 12:45 pm 
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First of all: Goblins are fun! :D

Second, assuming you're not using them solely 'for teh lulz' but are trying to have them as strong as possible, I would do the following:

Team composition:
1: Skip the Bomber; he's not worth it unless you have a double to spare, and you don't (see below). And even then he's not exactly amazing.
2: I would actually skip the Pogoer as well; he's OK, but expensive, and with 170k spent on Miggs, you need the 30k from the Pogoer (over a normal Goblin) for other things.
3: I would get the Doom Diver, not so much for the OTT, but for having a TD option during a drive, when you're bogged down somewhere and the opponent will crush your cage next turn.
4: Get a third Reroll instead of the Bribe. Your two secret weapons are likely to get KO'd or worse, so the bribes may very well do nothing, and you always have Argue the Call as an option.

So this gets you:
2 Trolls: 220k
Fanatic: 70k
Doom Diver: 60k
Looney: 40k
9 Goblins: 360k
Madcap Miggs: 170k
3 Rerolls: 180k

Skill selection:
1: From what I can tell you get 7 normal skills and 2 doubles, and no stacking. If you can get more doubles: do so, even if they cost twice as much as a normal skill.
2: 2 Doubles means Block on both Trolls. You really don't want to be making 1/9 failure with loner Blocks if you can avoid it.
3: Fanatic should get Mighty Blow, Looney and Doom Diver should get Dodge. If you can get a third double: Block on Fanatic.
4: 1 Goblin should get Sure Feet (Ball Carrier), 3 should get Side Step.

Good Luck! :orc:


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 Post subject: Re: TV110k Goblin Team (EB2016 Rules)
 Post Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 12:55 pm 
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Ive recently had a debate with a very experienced goblin coach about skills espcially regarding the doomdiver.

He like guard on his trolls. (i think he blocks alot with his regular goblins)
this whould free up 2 double skills for bomber and a leader goblin.
He suggested catch on the doom diver.

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 Post subject: Re: TV110k Goblin Team (EB2016 Rules)
 Post Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 8:23 pm 
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Thanks for the feedback!

Dr. Von Richten wrote:
1: Skip the Bomber; he's not worth it unless you have a double to spare, and you don't (see below). And even then he's not exactly amazing.

Really? I thought that he was good against slow bash teams like orcs and dwarves.

Dr. Von Richten wrote:
2: I would actually skip the Pogoer as well; he's OK, but expensive, and with 170k spent on Miggs, you need the 30k from the Pogoer (over a normal Goblin) for other things.

I was actually thinking of skipping leader and taking sure hands on the pogoer, since I've got dodge for dodges and loner on the hitters anyway.

Dr. Von Richten wrote:
3: I would get the Doom Diver, not so much for the OTT, but for having a TD option during a drive, when you're bogged down somewhere and the opponent will crush your cage next turn.

Good point. Will have to see what I can do. I however see the pogoer as a more useful player overall.

Dr. Von Richten wrote:
4: Get a third Reroll instead of the Bribe. Your two secret weapons are likely to get KO'd or worse, so the bribes may very well do nothing, and you always have Argue the Call as an option.

This is a good point as well. I'll have to look in to it.

Dr. Von Richten wrote:
Skill selection:
2: 2 Doubles means Block on both Trolls. You really don't want to be making 1/9 failure with loner Blocks if you can avoid it.
3: Fanatic should get Mighty Blow, Looney and Doom Diver should get Dodge. If you can get a third double: Block on Fanatic.
4: 1 Goblin should get Sure Feet (Ball Carrier), 3 should get Side Step.


2. I can see the logic behind the reasoning, but if you go for more safety, why not play 'flings?
3. Does it make sense to take skills on the secret weapons when I'm playing without bribes. Wouldn't that potentially be wasted skills?
4. I like to have 4 side step, two for each side but that's when I play 'flings. I'll have to test what works with goblins.

Omalley69 wrote:
Ive recently had a debate with a very experienced goblin coach about skills espcially regarding the doomdiver.

He like guard on his trolls. (i think he blocks alot with his regular goblins)
this whould free up 2 double skills for bomber and a leader goblin.
He suggested catch on the doom diver.


I can see the guard on the troll. If you don't block with them, they don't cause turnovers.
What about sure hands on the pogoer instead as the reroll would probably be used for ball handling anyway?
I can see catch on the doom diver. I'm just not sure if he's worth the money as he's quite situational and cost 1,5 goblins.

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 Post subject: Re: TV110k Goblin Team (EB2016 Rules)
 Post Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 11:54 am 
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I dont put skills on secret weapons. One Troll with block is great. No. 2 can do with guard. Otherwise doubles are block/wrestle on goblins. On top oft all the dice rolling you will be doing you dont want extra blocking/ blitzing TOs. I like the pogoer, usually give him sure feet. Side step is useful on goblins, probably better than all other non-double choices. You dont play halflings because you play goblins ;)

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 Post subject: Re: TV110k Goblin Team (EB2016 Rules)
 Post Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 12:10 pm 
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Find myself agreeing with almost everything that Dr. Von Richten says, especially with regards to the Bomber/Pogo

I would however take bribes, without the weapons goblins suddenly change from potential terrors to the passive role of murder victim.

Trolls are often ½d blocked away or even down. Giving them Block skill helps massively. Break tackle is another 2+ that trolls dont need to be making. Would happily argue for Guard on them also if you prefer the doubles elsewhere. I personally take a Sure Hands goblin allowing you to start your drive with some actions not worrying about saving the rr to pick up the ball. Goblins who dont pick up the ball first time, lose.


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 Post subject: Re: TV110k Goblin Team (EB2016 Rules)
 Post Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 12:02 pm 
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Having taken some of your suggestions in to account, I've changed the roster to this

2 Trolls (Block, Guard)
8 Goblins (4 Side Step)
Pogoer (Sure Feet)
Chainsaw
Bomber (HMP)
Fungus
Madcap Miggz
2 Rerolls
Bribe
FF

I've removed one skill and used the 20k on Fungus and currently FF.
Should I switch the bribe to a reroll instead?

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 Post subject: Re: TV110k Goblin Team (EB2016 Rules)
 Post Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 12:33 pm 
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2RR do not seem enough. You should squeeze for a third one

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 Post subject: Re: TV110k Goblin Team (EB2016 Rules)
 Post Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 7:08 pm 
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RoterSternHochdahl wrote:
2RR do not seem enough. You should squeeze for a third one


Bribe + FF < Reroll, that's what you're saying?

There're just 12 players that don't have secret weapon.
Is it weise to play without at least one bribe?

On the other hand, if I'm left with those 12 players, an extra reroll could come in handy...

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 Post subject: Re: TV110k Goblin Team (EB2016 Rules)
 Post Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 2:14 pm 
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2RR are simply not enough for a team with no sure hands and hardly any block. I usually end up sacrificing either the bribe or a secret weapon. heoretically, you could also go for leade instead of HMP

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 Post subject: Re: TV110k Goblin Team (EB2016 Rules)
 Post Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 4:04 pm 
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The other answer to the conundrum is to swap block for leader. Less certainty with the troll's play, but a high armour, regen leader is almost the same as a rostered RR.

The more boring answer is to swap HMP for leader, (put on a troll instead of guard).

I'd want to keep at least one bribe. You're relying on rolling 6's to keep useful pieces on the pitch otherwise.

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 Post subject: Re: TV110k Goblin Team (EB2016 Rules)
 Post Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:17 am 
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mawph wrote:
The other answer to the conundrum is to swap block for leader. Less certainty with the troll's play, but a high armour, regen leader is almost the same as a rostered RR.

The more boring answer is to swap HMP for leader, (put on a troll instead of guard).

I'd want to keep at least one bribe. You're relying on rolling 6's to keep useful pieces on the pitch otherwise.


That was my initial though, going for leader on a troll (see top of the thread).

I like the HMP on the bomber and would like to at least try it in one tournament.

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 Post subject: Re: TV110k Goblin Team (EB2016 Rules)
 Post Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:58 pm 
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Pedda wrote:
Too few bribes?
Needs more rerolls?
Troll skills?
Bomber not worth it?

  • Too few bribes: My general rule of thumb is to go for one bribe per secret weapon player.
  • Needs more rerolls: Always... sorry, ALWAYS... go for three team re-rolls. Always.
  • Troll skills: Whenever I have the chance to take doubles, I go for Block. The reason behind this is that at a certain point in the game, you need to create a certain defensive line to screen your Goblin ball carriers. It is therefor not necessarily a choice out of 'reliability' (cause you don't have much use for Block when you fail your Really Stupid roll...), but more to generate a certain amount of breathing space, instead of having to run away for sixteen turns going.
  • Bomber not worth it: Indeed. Not worth it.

In regard to the Bombardier and the use of Hail Mary Pass; Is it a bad choice? No. In league builds, I would advice it as a certain route of player building, but at tournaments your choice of skills is limited, and I would think Block on your Trolls, Block on a Fanatic, or Sure Hands on your Pogoer or a Goblin are not only the better options, but also more useful for your team as a whole. (especially when you have multiple secret weapons in your team, and only one bribe).

My choice for the team build, taking into consideration your desire to field Madcap, would be:
2 Trolls (220)
Madcap Miggz (170)
Fanatic (70)
Looney (40)
8 Goblins (320)
3 Re-Rolls (180)
2 Bribes (100)

This would give you thirteen players (which are a couple less then I'd personally would like, but you eventually run around with a Squig, which is worth the equivalent of over four Goblins), of which two are secret weapons, but where two bribes also give you the chance to keep them around a tad longer then just one drive.
It also mean that if you are kicking, and playing against a fast team (Pro Elves, Skaven, Wood Elves), you can opt to field a secret weapon or leave them out, saving your secret weapons for a later drive.

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