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 Post subject: Re: Lessons Learned from Previous World Cups
 Post Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 3:06 pm 
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dreamscreator wrote:
Milo wrote:
For someone who wasn't personally at Lucca, can you explain more about the "app" and what features were most useful for it?


The app is still available: https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... .bloodbowl

I think the most useful was that you could check against who were you playing and in which table. That avoid lot of time going to see the prints with all the draft. An improvement would be add a search option to this part.

I liked too the option of see the opponents rosters and the rankings.


Was there an iOS version?

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 Post subject: Re: Lessons Learned from Previous World Cups
 Post Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 3:48 pm 
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Milo wrote:
Was there an iOS version?

I think so, but not sure. I use Android.

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 Post subject: Re: Lessons Learned from Previous World Cups
 Post Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 4:10 pm 
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I believe so, but not Windows. Torsten has my most recent communication with the company, by the way.

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 Post subject: Re: Lessons Learned from Previous World Cups
 Post Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 4:30 pm 
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Running a tournament isn't rocket science, but in my opinion the biggest difference between a well-run tournament and one that's poorly organized is information. Both speed and communication. How quickly can results be entered as they come in? How quickly can the draw for the next round be generated and published? Probably most importantly, how will hundreds of coaches find out their table assignments and opponent? The app in Lucca was great because it communicated this quickly. "Print out the draw for the next round on a page of paper, tape it up on the wall" works at a tournament for 20 coaches but breaks down quickly with more than that. "Everyone looks at their phone and knows where to go" is a solution. Data entry is basically just a question of manpower (with hundreds of games all ending at about the same time, that can be a bottleneck). Maybe even some built-in sanity check to make sure that games being entered are the ones that were supposed to be played - the absolute nightmare scenario is realizing that your draw is wrong 5 minutes into a round.

Once data entry and communication are taken care of, everything else is just hotel management. Tables need to be set up, the bar needs to stock a lot of beer, lights and PA and AC need to work ... but that's on the venue.

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 Post subject: Re: Lessons Learned from Previous World Cups
 Post Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 4:44 pm 
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I'm sure that this has already filtered through to those that need to know, but the recent Warhammer Fest tournament used an app called Best Coast Player Pairings. It told you your table number, had the roster of your opponent there to look at and the game results were uploaded by the players after the game using their passwords.

Now, it wasn't perfect (there were issues with some passwords not working), but as I understand it it's very new and doesn't just cater for BB (so isn't optimised for us). The WC team could do a lot worse than approaching whoever is responsible and seeing if it can be developed further. In an ideal world, you could cut the number of refs needed and maybe even dispense with whatever computer Swiss program we used in Lucca. It was a very impressive thing. Any tournament of over 50 coaches could make good use of it, really.


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 Post subject: Re: Lessons Learned from Previous World Cups
 Post Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 4:58 pm 
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I've been in contact with the guys that run BCP. Will hope to get something going with them, both for minor tournaments and possibly a larger scale thing for Eurobowl/World Cup/NAFC.

World Cup was a combination of Score and Excel. Worked well, but could/should be improved.

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Last edited by sann0638 on Tue Jun 06, 2017 4:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Lessons Learned from Previous World Cups
 Post Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 4:58 pm 
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Purplegoo wrote:
I'm sure that this has already filtered through to those that need to know, but the recent Warhammer Fest tournament used an app called Best Coast Player Pairings. It told you your table number, had the roster of your opponent there to look at and the game results were uploaded by the players after the game using their passwords.

Now, it wasn't perfect (there were issues with some passwords not working), but as I understand it it's very new and doesn't just cater for BB (so isn't optimised for us). The WC team could do a lot worse than approaching whoever is responsible and seeing if it can be developed further. In an ideal world, you could cut the number of refs needed and maybe even dispense with whatever computer Swiss program we used in Lucca. It was a very impressive thing. Any tournament of over 50 coaches could make good use of it, really.


That's a great heads up. Thanks.

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 Post subject: Re: Lessons Learned from Previous World Cups
 Post Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 5:01 pm 
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rolo wrote:
How quickly can the draw for the next round be generated and published? Probably most importantly, how will hundreds of coaches find out their table assignments and opponent? The app in Lucca was great because it communicated this quickly. "Print out the draw for the next round on a page of paper, tape it up on the wall" works at a tournament for 20 coaches but breaks down quickly with more than that. "Everyone looks at their phone and knows where to go" is a solution.


That's definitely something we're working on. Unfortunately, the 2017 NAF championship also pointed out some concerns with "everybody look at their phone" -- namely, that everyone looks at their phone and you need a robust web server to ensure you don't DDOS yourself.

But again, I'm asking for any sort of feedback: stuff you liked, stuff you didn't, etc.

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 Post subject: Re: Lessons Learned from Previous World Cups
 Post Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 5:05 pm 
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Purplegoo wrote:
I'm sure that this has already filtered through to those that need to know, but the recent Warhammer Fest tournament used an app called Best Coast Player Pairings. It told you your table number, had the roster of your opponent there to look at and the game results were uploaded by the players after the game using their passwords.

Now, it wasn't perfect (there were issues with some passwords not working), but as I understand it it's very new and doesn't just cater for BB (so isn't optimised for us). The WC team could do a lot worse than approaching whoever is responsible and seeing if it can be developed further. In an ideal world, you could cut the number of refs needed and maybe even dispense with whatever computer Swiss program we used in Lucca. It was a very impressive thing. Any tournament of over 50 coaches could make good use of it, really.


^this! I loved the app at Lucca but it could be improved with searches by coach and individual rosters, dynamic race ranking (Plus Stunty), current most Td table, most Cas and game result uploading/ validation. I even go back into the WC one occasionally to seek out a competitive race roster although can be a faff to scroll the finishing positions to find the coach/ team, then find the roster through a different route. I used in on Apple OS btw.

On a different note at the WC loved the timer on the big screen and the last 5/10 minutes clock and tune to ensure that you pick up the pace to finish! Table numbers work incredibly well to get a visual representation of where you/ other coaches are in a tournament - i'm surprised more local ones don't do it as a norm.

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 Post subject: Re: Lessons Learned from Previous World Cups
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 8:56 am 
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Milo wrote:
But again, I'm asking for any sort of feedback: stuff you liked, stuff you didn't, etc.


Little things, most of which are sadly outside of the organizer's control, make tournaments enjoyable. Fun games against mostly evenly matched opponents. Stable tables with enough room on the side so you don't risk spilling your drink all over your opponent's models (right Milo?) ;)
Enough downtime between games to chat with people, get food or drinks, look at the vendors (this was actually one of my regrets in Lucca, there was a lot of stuff on display and I only saw about half of it). Not having to wait excessively long at the bar, or the bathrooms. This hasn't been a problem with any Blood Bowl tournament that I've been to, but some gaming conventions have a bottleneck at the entrance, as frustrated and underpaid personnel at the entrance beep everyone's badge with a slow, buggy scanner.

tl;dr:
Good: Playing Blood Bowl, knowing ahead of time where to be, and when.
Bad: Waiting in line.

Also good - ways for people outside the tournament to connect. Sann posted each draw and results as an article on the NAF site at the end of the day, but what would be great is a link that I can send my friends to a table so they can follow how I'm doing. What would be awesome is if there were a photostream or a webcam that people could watch. What would also be really cool is to have a hashtag (#NAFWorldCup2017)? And every 30 seconds or so, display a tweet to that hashtag on a big screen. This can get pretty funny at events, as people make fun of each other, comment on their game, people's friends offer support, it's basically guaranteed to spawn in-jokes and entertainment.

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 Post subject: Re: Lessons Learned from Previous World Cups
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 10:41 am 
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rolo wrote:
Also good - ways for people outside the tournament to connect. Sann posted each draw and results as an article on the NAF site at the end of the day, but what would be great is a link that I can send my friends to a table so they can follow how I'm doing. What would be awesome is if there were a photostream or a webcam that people could watch. What would also be really cool is to have a hashtag (#NAFWorldCup2017)? And every 30 seconds or so, display a tweet to that hashtag on a big screen. This can get pretty funny at events, as people make fun of each other, comment on their game, people's friends offer support, it's basically guaranteed to spawn in-jokes and entertainment.


Great idea! Shorter hashtag though. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Lessons Learned from Previous World Cups
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 10:50 am 
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sann0638 wrote:
Great idea! Shorter hashtag though. :)

#NAFWC

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 Post subject: Re: Lessons Learned from Previous World Cups
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:09 pm 
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rolo wrote:
Milo wrote:
But again, I'm asking for any sort of feedback: stuff you liked, stuff you didn't, etc.


Little things, most of which are sadly outside of the organizer's control, make tournaments enjoyable. Fun games against mostly evenly matched opponents. Stable tables with enough room on the side so you don't risk spilling your drink all over your opponent's models (right Milo?) ;)
...
Also good - ways for people outside the tournament to connect. Sann posted each draw and results as an article on the NAF site at the end of the day, but what would be great is a link that I can send my friends to a table so they can follow how I'm doing. What would be awesome is if there were a photostream or a webcam that people could watch. What would also be really cool is to have a hashtag (#NAFWorldCup2017)? And every 30 seconds or so, display a tweet to that hashtag on a big screen. This can get pretty funny at events, as people make fun of each other, comment on their game, people's friends offer support, it's basically guaranteed to spawn in-jokes and entertainment.


Or, you could just drink beverages that have a resealable top, like I do... =)

Those are some great ideas, although naturally the hashtag would be #NAFWorldCup2019...

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 Post subject: Re: Lessons Learned from Previous World Cups
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 1:29 pm 
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Milo wrote:
Or, you could just drink beverages that have a resealable top, like I do... =)


PERFECT SOLUTION! Serve beer in spill-proof sippy cups.

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 Post subject: Re: Lessons Learned from Previous World Cups
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 9:54 pm 
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As the owner of a windows phone, which wasn't supported in terms of the app, I found use of the app as a key organisational tool to be frustrating. It meant I had to rely on others all the time to figure out what was happening. If I'd had a phone with the app, I would no doubt have thought it a great idea.


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