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 Post subject: Re: WC II, Amsterdam
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 1:34 pm 
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At this moment I think that the 400 coaches number is too short. :-?

Dave&Lucy, I know the big effort but please, I beg you focus on to increase this number. "The more we are, the more we laugh" it's said in Spain :wink:

I don't discuss the restrictions, but there are lots of discussions about the "who is going method". And none is fair. :(

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 Post subject: Re: WC II, Amsterdam
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 1:43 pm 
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Pakulkan wrote:
I paid first NAF WC I even with all of this arround, moreover, whithout be sure to can come, but we wanted to, and we went. Other people just wait to see how it went (it's fair, have no problem with that) and when it works, now is plenty of people. I don't want anybody out of the tourney. But I think that taking into account risky of NAF WC I, we deserve a place. That's it.

I agree somewhat - I think the should be a (short - day or two at most) period of time that those that attended WCI could apply before others (which, seeing as I reffed that event, would actually put me at a disadvantage :oops: ).

But on the other hand, why should those that couldn't (for whatever reason) attend WCI be penalised?

I don't think there can be a "fair" system, so "first-come, first served", based on nationalities, is probably the best way to do it unfortunately.

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 Post subject: Re: WC II, Amsterdam
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 1:47 pm 
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With Australia and New Zealand being lumped together team spots, are Oz and Nz allowed to mix teams up or are they required to be all Oz or all Nz ?

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 Post subject: Re: WC II, Amsterdam
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 4:44 pm 
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Just another question.

What about a guy who post his team with not-so-sure friends just to save a place and then starts to really fill the team afterwards changing the participants? I think it could be possible to happen wed due to this lack of slots per country, and is not fair also...

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 Post subject: Re: WC II, Amsterdam
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 4:54 pm 
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I'm not going to Amsterdam unless in the very last moment someone needs a freebooter and asks me to and I'm free to go as I can't think so far ahead in my live being unemployed.

But as the mess is so big in the spanish forum with this sensible subject i've designed a way this could be sorted:

1) One day inscriptions open. Every naf member can only be in one team.

2) Every team member adds the highest naf points team he has got. Then we have a total for the six players of the team.

3) Each nation sorts their teams in order.

5) Five days to pay the inscription money. If not paid loose the right to go and next team in the list is invited.

6) 5 Naf points could be added to the teams that went to the last NAF WC for each team member than repeats for a maximum of 30.

7) Finally it could be fixed a number of teams (let's say the first 25) who would win the right to go to the next NAf WC

Kewan has said at the spanish forum my idea is the worst he's heard, but had not put any argument agianst it.

Someone agrees with me this could be a great way of doing it?

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 Post subject: Re: WC II, Amsterdam
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 5:03 pm 
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Bad idea - very elitist. Why should a team that have members that enjoy playing "bad" teams have less chance of going than a team full of powergamers?

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 Post subject: Re: WC II, Amsterdam
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 5:20 pm 
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Darkson wrote:
Bad idea - very elitist. Why should a team that have members that enjoy playing "bad" teams have less chance of going than a team full of powergamers?

That's a point!

But an average veteran NAF member will have played many teams. Some Tier 1 and some tier 3 i'm only taking in account the highest one he's got, not the race he intends to play at NAF WC.

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 Post subject: Re: WC II, Amsterdam
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 6:38 pm 
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And those who simply don't have the ability to get to many tourneys, and thus build up their rankings?

First come, first served is the closest to fair. Which sucks, but that's life.
Either that or unlimited teams are put into the pot and drawn randomly for each slot allotted to each nation (the slots having been adjusted to represent the number of teams that have applied from each country.)

Doesn't that sound like fun?

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 Post subject: Re: WC II, Amsterdam
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 6:51 pm 
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txapo wrote:
But an average veteran NAF member will have played many teams. Some Tier 1 and some tier 3 i'm only taking in account the highest one he's got, not the race he intends to play at NAF WC.

Such as Draco? Highest ranking 149-ish, and 200+ games played - is this the sort of player you want to exclude?


(And apologies to Draco for picking on his record, he just immediately came to mind as the sort of vet coach that loves playing the underdog.)


Or hoomin_erra for that matter (150 games, highest ranking 138-ish), but then, Rob wouldn't be such a big loss. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: WC II, Amsterdam
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 7:43 pm 
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I have a couple of concerns with the system. The first is that a first come first served basis is simply going to come down to the speed of your internet. Details on clipboard, hit 'post reply' a minute or two in advance, wait... paste...post. Then it's simply down to whatever ISP speed you have surely? Who got fibre optic broadband? Who lives somewhere rural?
(And what's going to happen when that amount of people try and post on the same thread at the same time? Should the site crash, we're looking at a fiasco.)

Secondly a weekday disadvantages some. Who's in an office that can access the NAF site? Who's in an office that can't? Who's on a shop floor? Who's on a building site? We are scrabbling around to find one of our team who can be online at that particular time.

The only real fair way is a lottery. Any idea of special dispensation is elitist nonsense. 5 of our 6 were at the first ever NAF tourney back in 2003 and have double digit NAF numbers. I'd hate to think what our NAF games and tournies attended would total between us over the last 7 years! 3 of us were Staff at the first NAF WC. That doesn't and shouldn't give us any more right to a spot than anybody else. But I'd like the same chance, and I'm not sure we're going to get it with this process.

Whatever, I'll be there anyway. I'll just volunteer my services in whatever capacity my Dutch friends can find a use for me. Maybe I'll be surplus to requirements, but I'll certainly be partying hard with far flung friends and maybe play the odd game in a bar.

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 Post subject: Re: WC II, Amsterdam
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 7:50 pm 
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Deathwing wrote:
Whatever, I'll be there anyway. I'll just volunteer my services in whatever capacity my Dutch friends can find a use for me. Maybe I'll be surplus to requirements, but I'll certainly be partying hard with far flung friends and maybe play the odd game in a bar.


Just so Dave et al know...this applies for me too.

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 Post subject: Re: WC II, Amsterdam
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 9:24 pm 
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Thadrin wrote:
And those who simply don't have the ability to get to many tourneys, and thus build up their rankings?

First come, first served is the closest to fair. Which sucks, but that's life.
Either that or unlimited teams are put into the pot and drawn randomly for each slot allotted to each nation (the slots having been adjusted to represent the number of teams that have applied from each country.)

Doesn't that sound like fun?

If you want to be a "open" torunament to all NAF coaches the think the second one is the more democratic, as not everybody can be at 14:00 o,clock waiting for the server to be open in order to inmediatly post... (In ancient greece public charges where elected randomly.)

You could automaticaly include the NAFTO'S teams for all the work they do for the comunity.

And Darkson if Drako joins a team with other vet playes who have highest ranks he could still go. But i agree with you that mine is a elitistic method of choice.

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 Post subject: Re: WC II, Amsterdam
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 18, 2010 1:26 pm 
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I think the places should be choosen by;
take all members NAF numbers.
add them together.
divide the total by the width of the sun.
add in the uncertain number.
multiply by Pi.
run that many number of hydrogen atoms around the LHC.
take the new number of atoms and divide by zero.

Whichever teams survives the ensuing universe melt can play :)

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Last edited by lunchmoney on Sat Dec 18, 2010 1:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: WC II, Amsterdam
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 18, 2010 1:31 pm 
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Can we work the Large Hadron Collider into that method somewhere?

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 Post subject: Re: WC II, Amsterdam
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 18, 2010 1:34 pm 
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Thadrin wrote:
Can we work the Large Hadron Collider into that method somewhere?

yes..................

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