What sort of World Cup do we want?

All discusions for the upcoming NAF BB World Cup should be discussed here

Moderators: lunchmoney, TFF Mods

One where:

every country has one team using each country's established selection method and everyone else 'spectates' from the side tourney
43
42%
every country has one team selected at the tourney and everyone else 'spectates' from the side tourney
8
8%
every country has as many teams as they can make up with excesses going into a 'mongrel horde' team
24
23%
everyone gets to represent their country in an individual tourney with the winning country somehow based on the individual rankings
28
27%
 
Total votes: 103

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grotuk
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Post by grotuk »

The biggest problem trying to give prestige to the individual tournament beeing the side tournament is that almost all the best players in all the NAF charts are going to play with their national teams.

So...in a competitive environment i'll fell like been the "best of the rest". Thats the "cliche" we need to drop out to make it as atractive as possible. Or just to focus and make the best team tournament event...forgeting the side tournament.

But this is on the organizers side. If we dont know what are they expecting...we cant help them with ideas.

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Post by Podfrey »

grotuk wrote:But this is on the organizers side. If we dont know what are they expecting...we cant help them with ideas.
But from the sidelines it seems like the organisers don't know what they want.

I'm not having a go, because obviously work has gone into securing a venue and a date and that is to be applauded, but it just appears a bit weak on solid substance and practicalities after that.

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Post by Indigo »

Because the organisers need to know what the community wants before it can be decided :)

There is no way we can satisfy everyone so as I see it we need to come with a system that satisfies most then appeal to those who are not 100% sure to come along and join in anyway.

We need more ideas and suggestions so we can get something together.

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grotuk
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Post by grotuk »

lucifer wrote:
grotuk wrote:But this is on the organizers side. If we dont know what are they expecting...we cant help them with ideas.
But from the sidelines it seems like the organisers don't know what they want.

I'm not having a go, because obviously work has gone into securing a venue and a date and that is to be applauded, but it just appears a bit weak on solid substance and practicalities after that.
Im with you on this...thats the way im not going to try to explain again and again how i will like the WC be...and im just gonna contribute to the debate with some facts that i think people is missing each moment.

Also...last week i left the forum thinking this would be the NAF collapse...cause everybody is argueing his side...without clues...becoming in a really strong debate with really opposite points of view....and what are the organizers do? Just read and move forward (i hope so) behind the scene... and in the meantime some people is blaming each other. Thats not the goal of this WC so....i step outside the core of the debate...until we know something else.

This all is becoming crap. Hope we can reach something good...but im not confidence.

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Indigo
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Post by Indigo »

We NEED the debate. We NEED to know what people want from a tournament at this early stage so the organizers can come together with something the community has fed into. If people simply say "nice try but it's not going to work, I'll just watch" then they are missing out on the chance to feed into it. Which doesn't help them, nor does it help the organizers.

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grotuk
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Post by grotuk »

Indigo wrote:We NEED the debate. We NEED to know what people want from a tournament at this early stage so the organizers can come together with something the community has fed into. If people simply say "nice try but it's not going to work, I'll just watch" then they are missing out on the chance to feed into it. Which doesn't help them, nor does it help the organizers.
Ok Dave....but why organizers havent already clear how they want to be the WC. That is easy and can help a lot for the debate. If we keep argueing both sides...next month the organizers choose how its going to be...and 2 months later (february or so) they have clear the rules to achieve the main goal. Then...7 months left to organize the countries and so...that can be enough for the europeans but not so enough for ROTW.

So...what im asking to the organizers is...

- Do you want this tournament be the Biggest tournament Ever?
- Or do you want a tournament who show who is the best Nation playing BB in the best way possible?

If its the first option...we need a lot of debate there to find a way to get the Best nation...at the same time that we make the tournament really interesting for everyone.

If its the second option...go with a Eurobowl system.

But, for me...both options are not compatible.

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Post by Longshot »

Why people all focus about the Team Tourny ?
It should be a part of It not everything !

Eurobowl never did a Side tournament cos it was may be too hard to handle, what i can easily understand.

But there, we have the chance to do both and even more! so stop focussing about only Team competition. If a guy just want to come to be in the Nationnal Team and Dont give a F of representing his country in a individual tournament.... is he really eligible for his nationnal Team?

I guess no... that's would only mean he doesnt get the WC point! (imho)

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Post by Indigo »

I don't see why it can't be both combined. I've had a go at drafting a daily chart showing which tournaments could run when. I've focused on four main gaming events - a 9 game individual event, and 8 man EB team event, a 4-man league event (although obviously not restricted to leagues) and the stunty cup (for gobbos, flings and ogres only).

Alongside this we would have Dungeonbowl & Streetbowl tournaments, sculpting/painting workshops by our talented friends and I even have an idea for a pub quiz that might not suck ;)

What I am trying to show is that even if the perception is that the 8 man EB tournament will decide the "world champions", we can get enough other things going on so people can compete for other world titles :D for example, IMO someone who wins an individual tournament of 9 games is pretty fcuking special...

But if the only thing people are interested in is getting on the 8 man team because they are only concerned with "who is best at blood bowl" (and can't decide that from 3 years of Eurobowl and countless regional tournaments) then the world cup is destined to fail :evil:

It's in Excel format.

http://www.bloodbowl.net/NAF/ArticleIma ... draft1.xls

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Post by Longshot »

Europeans and Out of European Players, can already fix the date and plan to come. The main point is not how they re going to play.

So there s no problem at all.

Fix the date, keep money for it.
And now, we can discuss with people surely attending how we want it.
I could never rely on somebody wanting some stuff... disagree with final organisation.. so doesnt come cos the rules or a thing is not his taste.

WC should so much more than only a regular tourny!
If you believe in it, i think you dont see a problem.
If you want the rules and the way it is gonna be held before knowing if you want to come, that should mean 2 things for me:

-you dont trust Organisators..as they open the debate (which i am very glad they did) and so we ll find a good way for everybody or for a big majority (Fair/Structured/fun/includint every participant)

-you want to show yourself and try to win any ways

-you dont get the meaning of all of it.

I am already planning to come any position i ll be in a year. Only Work, family or big problems could prevent me to come at the last minute.

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Post by Kheldar »

Longshot wrote:Europeans and Out of European Players, can already fix the date and plan to come. The main point is not how they re going to play.

So there s no problem at all.

Fix the date, keep money for it.
And now, we can discuss with people surely attending how we want it.
I could never rely on somebody wanting some stuff... disagree with final organisation.. so doesnt come cos the rules or a thing is not his taste.

WC should so much more than only a regular tourny!
If you believe in it, i think you dont see a problem.
If you want the rules and the way it is gonna be held before knowing if you want to come, that should mean 2 things for me:

-you dont trust Organisators..as they open the debate (which i am very glad they did) and so we ll find a good way for everybody or for a big majority (Fair/Structured/fun/includint every participant)

-you want to show yourself and try to win any ways

-you dont get the meaning of all of it.

I am already planning to come any position i ll be in a year. Only Work, family or big problems could prevent me to come at the last minute.
Longshot is absolutely right on this one. It does not matter, wether you play in the team, single, or maybe double tournaments. This whole discussion occured when there was a talk about side Events. There should be no Side Events. Its more like different disciplines. See the World Cup as Olympic Games, and we may archive something really big.

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Post by Joemanji »

Just out of interest, who are the organisers? OMM is one, is there a commitee too? Who makes the final decisions?
Kheldar wrote:Longshot is absolutely right on this one. It does not matter, wether you play in the team, single, or maybe double tournaments. This whole discussion occured when there was a talk about side Events. There should be no Side Events. Its more like different disciplines. See the World Cup as Olympic Games, and we may archive something really big.
It would nice if it were that simple. The fact that all of the "best" players will be entering the team event devalues that sentiment though. I doubt any of the others will be convinced by just being told their event isn't a sideline at all, and is just as important as the team event. For that to be true, we will need to see some of the EuroBowl coaches dropping out of the team event to take part in one of the other events.

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Post by Longshot »

my feeling about that is that you can never have all the best players of each country in only 8 places.
So a lot of them can be in individual tournament.

And i liked Bevan's Idea on NAF Forum whose proposed this kind of calendar:

Day 1 & 2 : Both tournament run in the same time.
Day 3 , team coaches are put in the individual tourny (with the point they gain and lost during team tourny) to mix up everybody too.

Anyway, i dont think that there will be an easier tournament...specially over 9 games long ^^

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Post by grotuk »

Third day mix has a big problem, and its that its not the same scoring point with in one system or the other. I mean, in individual tourney you play against players as good as you (swiss style) but in country-swiss...you depend of how good is your country.

The best idea so far, to get people involved and entushiastic about his game without risk the team comp is Indigo's planning with Longshot's point for each activity. Something like F1 with the first 6 of each comp get point...differents for each comp...and finally add everything to get the overall winner.

This way everybody can add points for his nation and can be busy all the weekend.

But we just need a fair ticket distribution (maybe with NAF members percentage)...to not get all the comps fullfilled with english players.

I like the idea, so much.

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Post by Longshot »

grotuk wrote:Third day mix has a big problem, and its that its not the same scoring point with in one system or the other. I mean, in individual tourney you play against players as good as you (swiss style) but in country-swiss...you depend of how good is your country.
well, we can have the same point system.
For teams, you run it like Eurobowl but also count (double count then) like if it was in individual tourny. Then you can put them back into individual tourny.
One is Swiss not the other one.. well doesnt really matter cos you still have 3 games to go. If you come from Team Tourny and dont deserve your 6 points.. it will be shown. If you dont have 6 points ..meaning you already deserve to loose points somewhere ;)

Anyway as i said. I guess it could be fun to play both but if it is only one, i can go with that.

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Post by Dave »

unless you give the individual tournament a relatively easy scoring system from day one and onwards.

Not many players will have won everything after 6 matches, only 2 at EB 2006 so you can allways do an ellaborate scoring system for day 3 only to get a big enough spread in points

that was my idea actuall LS :wink:

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