What skill should the Kislev Linemen have?

neoliminal · Post by **neoliminal** » Mon Apr 29, 2002 10:11 pm

0-12 50K/60K Linemen, 5338, skill, G
0-4 90K Cossack Blockers, 5339, block+tackle, G+ST
0-2 90K Wings, 6338, catch+passblock, G+AG
0-2 70K Kickers, 6338, kick+punt(HMP), G
Apothecary, Wizard, ReRolls 40K

Okay, so what should the Linemen skill be:[/quote]

TiMuN · Post by **TiMuN** » Tue Apr 30, 2002 9:19 am

I would go for Strip Ball ... just to give them a different feel, and for it is part of a sport they play in that area, which mainly consists on a football match over horses, passing around a goat fur, and having to 'strip' it from another rider ..

Tackle would make them pretty close to their own Blockers ...

regards

Acerak · Post by **Acerak** » Tue Apr 30, 2002 12:45 pm

Personally, I'm in favor of something like this:

0-12 70K Lineman 6 3 3 8 Stand Firm (G)

Why do the Human linemen ALWAYS come out at 40K or 50K? If there's real room in Blood Bowl, it's for a roster based around another 70K base lineman position. And that could be a Human lineman.

Of course, I'd probably strip the other positions to 0-2 for starters. Maybe 0-4 Blockers. You certainly don't need more than 2 "Wings," because...umm...there are only two wide zones!

-Chet

Trambi · Post by **Trambi** » Mon May 06, 2002 8:12 am

I propose that each volunters in talkBB play a test match with at least once every kind of kislev team.
Then post your result and your feeling.
It's a kind of very big test match

plasmoid · Post by **plasmoid** » Tue May 07, 2002 8:43 am

Hi all,
teams originator here

I'd like to comment on the 4 choices listed here:

Tackle:
PRO: Not an anytable skill. Works against amazon.
CON: Only works against players with dodge. Used heavily on dwarf team.

Strip Ball:
PRO: Not an anytable skill. Works against about 90% of players. Will probably work well with kickers punting ability

Very defensive - only works when opponent has ball.
CON: Some coaches find it not defensive - but "counter offensive".

Stand Firm:
PRO: Works (potentially) against everyone. The Kislev wall. Skill originally intended for the team.
CON: Playtest (with another team!!) made it look too good for a lineman skill. Is a trait - and hence completely unavailable to the linemen.

Sidestep:
PRO: Works (potentially) against everyone. Not as powerful/versatile as stand firm.
CON: Not stand firm, but a lookalike. A doubles skill for the linemen.

Personally I don't like tackle, because I'd like the Kislev defense to be more encompassing.
Stand firm is (IMO) too good for the linemen - so I'd prefer sidestep, as stand firms weaker twin.

Sidestep, IMO, is the best skill for the team. However, it is an anytable skill. I consider strip ball to be the best back-up, if sidestep is universally disliked for being a doubles skill.

A note on doubles skills: They aren't that uncommen.
This is the number of doubles skills on a full 16 player roster:
Dwarf: 4 (2 slayers with frenzy and dauntless)
Chas Dwarf: 4 (2 bulls with sprint and sure feet)
Norse: 4 (jump up on 4 blitzers)
Kislev: 10 (8 linemen and 2 kickers)
Chaos: 12 (horns on beastmen)
Amazon: 14 (everybody except the catchers).

Finally - remember that Kislev won't field that much sidestep at a time: Whenever they use a position player, they have to not-use a lineman.

Martin

plasmoid · Post by **plasmoid** » Fri May 24, 2002 12:08 pm

Hi all,
the poll has been up for a month, and currently it's a 4-way tie.
Just goes to show that there are many different ways to do a defensive team.

The team was designed to have a strong defense. It has suffered a lot of cut-backs on other fronts in order to have a strong defense and still be balanced.
The team has little speed, no real passing game, no high ST or AG, and a limited arsenal, having just 4 ST-skill players and no big guy.
IMO, this is why the teams defense should (potentially) work against all the other teams.

This is why I don't think that tackle is the right solution.
Tackle will only work against the teams employing many dodge players.
But, IMO, strip ball is a great substitute for tackle. They are both general skills, and can both be used to take the ball from an exposed ball carrier.
So, I'll count all the tackle votes as strip ball votes.

Similarly, stand firm and sidestep have a lot in common.
Basically, they give you a good opportunity to fight back, if your opponent blocked nothing but "arrows".
It is my experience that stand firm is the better of these 2, since it is more versatile, so I prefer sidestep over stand firm for the sake of team balance.
Anyway, they are similar, and I'll count the stand firm votes as sidestep votes.

The result?
Strip Ball and Side Step are both good solutions, and it's still a tie: 10-10.

Strip ball does have the advantage of being a general skill, while side step is a "doubles" skill, but a recent poll hints that this isn't a devastating issue.

So, this august the Kislevites will embark on a 50 match test season, with side step on the linemen. If this proves too powerful, or otherwize problematic, I'll default to strip ball.
Feel free to give them a try if you like them

Martin

Acerak · Post by **Acerak** » Fri May 24, 2002 12:48 pm

The real problem with Strip Ball is that you tend to get one use per turn out of it, if that. It's great when it works, but it's useless otherwise. Side Step is always useful when you're getting hit.

-Chet

sean newboy · Post by **sean newboy** » Fri May 24, 2002 1:05 pm

I picked Sidestep, very cossackly (should i trademark that term

).

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Wed May 29, 2002 11:29 am

I went for tackle. Strip Ball is too specialised, and Side Step/Stand Firm are too powerful in large numbers. Tackle otoh is reasonably useful skill for linebackers, but not overly powered.

Ian

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