Creating your own team for Blood Bowl

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GalakStarscraper
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Re: Creating your own team for Blood Bowl

Post by GalakStarscraper »

Plasmoid ... don't agree with how you did that. I did it by player type which is how it needs to be done. Just wanted to post to anyone seeing this ... I don't think you can just list everything with a blanket policy.

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plasmoid
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Re: Creating your own team for Blood Bowl

Post by plasmoid »

Fair enough.
But there are some overlap between the types in your system too.
I'm hard pressed to come up with a player who should pay 20k for Shadowing or Pass Block.
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Re: Creating your own team for Blood Bowl

Post by Bakunin »

Khemri breaks rule nr. 2 - their total 16man str is 56.

Edit - [Read "Other notes" #2 - a known issue. - Darkson]

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Galak 3:16 says "There is a point in time that a player really should read the rulebook."
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Re: Creating your own team for Blood Bowl

Post by Jural »

Yes... Khmeri break a lot of things ;) Back when mummies had general access on normal rolls, they broke my team!

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Milo
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Re: Creating your own team for Blood Bowl

Post by Milo »

How much would you value Secret Weapon at as a negative skill?

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Re: Creating your own team for Blood Bowl

Post by JPB »

The “blanket formula”:
This is probably from the same source as the formula above, just with more liberties. And those liberties should allow to create any kind of player and/or emulate any player salary since 1994. And not only teams/players within a certain set of Guidelines (CRP). Consequently this version is less balanced, less accurate and requires overall more awareness for the process.
Note that I had to make some updates, but those only expanded on the original formula I found on the web (I believe Galak's?), but I did not change any part of the original formula (as I considered it “official”). I also marked any adjustments I've made as such.

Each player starts with 5 points.
Then add points for MA, ST, AG, AV (see below) and skills (see lists below, but default is -2/+2 per skill).

MA 2 is -4, MA 3 is -3, MA 4 is -2, MA 5 is -1, MA 6 is 0, MA 7 is +2, MA 8 is +3, MA 9 is +4.
ST 1 is -6, ST 2 is -3, ST 3 is 0, ST 4 is +6, ST 5 is +9, ST 6 is +12, ST 7 is +18, ST 8 is +21. The formula is: points=((ST-3)*3). If ST > 3 add +3. If ST > 6 add +6.
AG 1 is -4, AG 2 is -2, AG 3 is 0, AG 4 is +2, AG 5 is +4. The formula is: points=((AG-3)*2)
AV 5 is -4, AV 6 is -3, AV 7 is -2, AV 8 is 0, AV 9 is +1, AV 10 is +3.
(Note, that the guidelines above added that AV 7 is -1 only if the player receives no further skills or stat changes. A rule, that may be used here, too.)

Spikes AV bonus and Very Long Legs (3rd/4th) MA bonus are added in addition to the skill points.

Add another +1 if the player's AG and ST are both > 3.
Add another +1 if the player starts with Block & Dodge. (Note, interestingly the guidelines change this to +2 for Block (instead +3) and +2 for Blodge (instead +1). Which can make sense.)

If total points are 10 or below; salary=(points*10.000).
If total points are above 10; salary=100.000+((points-10)*5.000) (fractions are usually summed down)

Note that the costs in the rulebook can differ from the calculated ones by 10k. To counteract this it may help to compare the calculated cost with those of similar positions (Thrower/Blitzer etc.) before deciding on the final cost. This helps to figure in such common adjustments, like Block counting often as +2 only or the 10k discount on some Throwers, or that Catchers seem to get a 10k discount when they touch or break 100k. In fact it's best to calculate all salaries once and make a comparison list to get a feel for where the formula is accurate and were it isn't (neither this nor the formula of the original post is always on point). A lot of work, but calculating salaries really is not so much about blindly using the formula as it is about orientation, learning the system and getting a feel for it (EDIT: and, of course, to maintain relations & inner structure in the salary system)).
The only other noteworthy discrepancies (difference of more than 10k) are the Vampire and Treeman (Halfling version), but both are rather special cases. Star-players, especially since CRP are quite difficult. Old versions can be calculated with this formula fairly accurately, but CRP seems to use the formula, after which the cost can be doubled, left as they are or anything in between with an adjustment of up to plus/minus 50k. It's really irregular with a lot of room for interpretation (probably depending on the “player's perceived power-level”).

Skills
Note: That some of the following skills have been given sources (i.e. 3rd, 4th & CRP). This was necessary to distinguish different versions. (Most noteworthy are Stand Firm, Stakes, Stunty, Titchy & Foul Appearance. For nega-traits and secret weapons see the comments below.)

All skills, in these lists are rules that had been created by fans and officially published at one point or another. Their status is vague, but what the heck.
If puzzled, I occasionally had to give skills or effects a name (like Slowpoke or Thrall), as they had none. And consequently you may have no way of knowing or finding out what published rule it refers to unless you have very obscure and detailed knowledge of BB. (Just don't bother about it until you stumble over it).

Skill lists:
-3: Bionic (penalty roll 8+), Blood Lust, Deathroller (4th) (SW: +0), Dislike (if P access), Easily Confused (or halve the final cost instead?), Gluttony: -3, Hobgoblin, Off for a bite, Really Stupid (4th), Sappy, Secret Weapon, Take Root (4th), That Smells Good, Unstable.

-2: Big Guy, Bone-head (4th), Distrust, Goblin (3rd), Halfling (3rd), Loner, Mind-wiped, Niggling Injury, No Hands, Slowpoke, Wild Animal (4th).

-1: Always Hungry, Animosity (race) (FO version), Dislike (if no P access), Revert to Human Form, Righteous Anger, Savage, Sporting Chap, Woof Woof.

0: Animosity, Blood Greed, Decay, Double Progression, Head Coach, Immortal, Insatiable Appetite, Nurgle's Rot, Odin's Codpiece (+AV bonus), Penalty Roll (if inbuilt) (if not: 7/8/9+: -3 & 10+: -2), Pump Wagon (and halve ST points) (SW: +3), Spikes (+AV bonus), Splat!!, Squig (SW: +3), Squighopper, Stakes (4th) (SW: +2), Thrall, Treeman.

+1: Blunderbuss (4th) (SW +3), Bombardier (if AG < 4) (SW: +4), Dazzler, Disturbing Presence, Flyer, Frenzy, Horns, Leap (if AG < 4), Pass (if AG < 4), Past Master, Poisoned Dagger (4th) (SW: +3), Right Stuff, Spike (SW: +3), Stakes (CRP), Stiff Arm, Stunty (CRP), Thick Skull, Throw Team-mate, Thrud's Fans, Titchy (CRP), Toss Team-mate, Very Long Legs (+MA bonus).

+2: Accurate, Ball & Chain (and halve ST points) (SW: same), Bombardier (if AG > 3) (SW: +5), Break Tackle, Catch, Daemonic Aura, Dirty Player, Diving Catch, Diving Tackle, Dodge, Dump-off, Extra Arms, Extra Leg, Fan Favourite, Fend, Flash, Foul Appearance (CRP), Grab, Hail Mary Pass, Hook Kick, Hypnotic Eyebrows, Hypnotic Gaze, Juggernaut, Jump Up, Kantona Kick, Kick, Kick-off return, Leap (if AG > 3), Marauder, Mighty Blow, Nerves of Steel, Pass (if AG > 3), Pass Block, Perfect Spiral, Piling On, Pogo-Stick (4th) (SW: +4), Pooch Kick, Prehensile Tail, Pro, Push, Random Mutation, Safe Throw, Shadowing, Side Step, Sneaky Git, Split, Sprint, Stab (CRP), Stand Firm (CRP), Stink Bomb (if AG < 4) (SW: +5), Stoneskin, Strip Ball, Strong Leg, Sure Feet,Sure Hands, Tackle, Trip Up, Two Heads, Wrestle.

+3: Annoying, Aspect (+6 is more fitting?), Big Hand, Block, Chainsaw (SW: +6), Claw, Dauntless, Dirty Kick, Doom Diver (SW: +6) (or +5 & SW: +8?), Foul Appearance (4th), Gauntlets of Holding (SW: +6), Guard, Leader, Multiple Block, Razor Sharp Claws/Fangs, Regeneration, Sheepdog Ball-Retriever (SW: +6), Shower Attack, Staff (SW: +6), Stand Firm (4th), Stink Bomb (if AG > 3) (SW: +6), Stomp, Strong Arm (+2 only?), Stunty (3rd), Tentacles, Titchy (4th), Wings.

Notes/comments
CRP had an increase of costs for the Big Guys. Wild Animal +40k, Bone-head +30k, Really Stupid +20k and Take Root -10k. So I had to adjust the original points:
The following points can balance it out by replacing the points of the ones marked as (4th):
-5: Take Root (CRP) (if ST > 4) (may be fine at -3 if Stand Firm and Strong Arm count both as +2).
+1: Really Stupid (CRP) (if ST > 4)
+4: Bone-head (CRP) (if ST > 4)
+6: Wild Animal (CRP) (if ST > 4)

SW (Secret Weapons): The skills are listed under the points the skill should cost when it comes automatically with an ejection skill (SW) or Penalty Roll (i.e. the points for “secret weapon” or the “inbuilt Penalty Roll” (as it was in 3rd/4th) are already subtracted). The points in brackets after the skill name are the points the skill should cost without those inbuilt Penalty Rolls (i.e. (SW: +#) is the skill's “actual” value, from which you subtract -3 (if adding SW) or -3/-2 depending on the Penalty Roll the weapon had in 3rd/4th edition).

Ball & Chain: In CRP I halve the points for ST (only +9 for ST7). In 4th I've added half the points for the ST B&C granted the player during blocks (that was +6 points for ST 6). This offsets the disability to select a target.

Adjustments
I had to make some very difficult calls to decide on the points for some skills. And besides hours of contemplating. I went mostly by comparing to already rated skills, trying to take apart and emulate existing salaries and eventually creating the following definitions for orientation:
-3/+3 are the most powerful or devastating skills, a good example for -3 is Off for a bite.
-2/+2 is default.
-1/+1 are flavour skills who have a limited effect or require a set up (like Right Stuff), or are ambiguous.
+/-0 are skills that have no influence on the game itself (like Nurgle's Rot which is post match only), or are ambiguous.

These are all adjustments (besides notes/comments) I've made to the original document (does not list skills added as default, i.e. as +2/-2). So if you remove the following skills you'll get the exact same formula that I've found on the internet all those years back:
Animosity: 0 (this is how it's applied, it arguably could be -1, and if the player has P access even -2), Animosity (race) (FO version): -1, Annoying: +3, Aspect: +3, Ball & Chain (halve ST), Bionic: -3, Blood Greed: +0, Blood Lust: -3, Blunderbuss (4th): +1, Bombardier (if AG < 4): +1, Chainsaw: +3, Dazzler: +1, Decay: 0, Deathroller (4th): -3, Dirty Kick: +3, Dislike: -3 (if P access), Dislike: -1 (if no P access), Disturbing Presence: +1, Doom Diver: +3, Double Progression: 0, Easily Confused: -3 (or halve final cost?), Flyer: +1, Foul Appearance (CRP): +2, Gauntlets of Holding: +3, Gluttony: -3, Head Coach: +0, Hobgoblin: -3, Immortal: +0 (no heal), Insatiable Appetite: +0, Nurgle's Rot: 0, Odin's Codpiece: +0 (+ AV bonus), Past Master: +1 (consisting of Retired: -3, The Fans go wild: +1, The ref's favourite: +3, Memorable: +0), Penalty Roll: +0 (inbuilt, but 9+ or lower is -3, 10+ or greater -2), Poisoned Dagger: +1, Pump Wagon: 0 (& halve ST), Revert to Human Form: -1, Righteous Anger: -1, Sappy: -3, Savage: -1, Secret Weapon: -3, Sheepdog Ball-Retriever: +3, Shower Attack: +3, Spike: +1, Splat!!: +0 (too random), Sporting Chap: -1, Squig: +0, Squighopper: +0, Staff: +3, Stakes (4th): 0, Stakes (CRP): +1, Stand Firm (CRP): +2, Stiff Arm: +1, Stink Bomb: (if AG > 3) +3, Stomp: +3, That Smells Good: -3, Thrall: +0 (although I see it as +1), Thrud's Fans: +1, Titchy (CRP): +1, Toss team-mate: +1, Treeman: +0, Unstable: -3, Wings: +3, Woof Woof: -1.

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