Expert BB-moved from vault

Dark Lord (retired) · Post by **Dark Lord (retired)** » Sat Apr 09, 2005 1:41 am

Torg wrote:I'd stick with 2d6 (like in AV checks). I think rolling under your stat is simple enough, don't need the silly inverted table that came with 3ed, that was done just because they wanted all 6s to be successes and all 1s to be failures, don't really need that game mechanic.

The problem with rolling under a stat and using 2D6 is that the results from a 2D6 don't have a straight incremental increase. Rolling under a 5 compared to rolling under a 6 is a much smaller step compared with rolling under a 7 compared to rolling under an 8.

If you are going to use a "roll under" system you really should use 1 die unless you want to completely complicate the process of valuing of the stats.

Pink Horror · Post by **Pink Horror** » Sat Apr 09, 2005 3:17 am

Dark Lord wrote:Personally I don't like the current system with any dice. I'd rather see something like (insert name I forgot here)'s with rolling successes and failures.

Akin to the old White Wolf system.

I don't have the role playing experience of many of the others here, so I don't know the old White Wolf system. How would that work?

Dark Lord (retired) · Post by **Dark Lord (retired)** » Sat Apr 09, 2005 4:56 am

You wrote:As far as dice go, I like systems that have different styles of rolls for different kinds of actions (like, I don't know, Blood Bowl). For example, you have to pass, so you roll a die for every point of throwing power (whatever stats and skills would make that up, I haven't decided), and the range dictates the success roll. Then you get roll all the successes trying to beat a number based on your accuracy stat with modifiers for vision or something. Every extra success makes it easier to catch. I tend to think a game is more fun when there is a different procedure for working out each action, when compared to games that seem to have all d12 or d20 rolls.

I believe that was the White Wolf style of system. (I may be confusing it with the West End Games Star Wars)

Ziggi Abschuss · Post by **Ziggi Abschuss** » Sun Apr 10, 2005 6:53 am

If you guys are set on moving away from the D6 then why not consider d100 (d10+D10). That would enable you to set the odds of success fairly accurately and most of the time you would only need to roll one die (dice if we follow GW grammar).

This was in some form discussed some time ago and I made the same suggestion only to receive a lot of

, but I still think this would be the ultimate move if you want max diversity in results.

Ziggi

Vero · Post by **Vero** » Sun Apr 10, 2005 7:31 am

D100 just don't fit into the +ag category well. Who's going to get one per cent increase to all agility rolls?

(and don't say a lino gets 10 ag boost, i hate those level 100000 ag 10000000000 and str 99999999999 games

)

Dark Lord (retired) · Post by **Dark Lord (retired)** » Sun Apr 10, 2005 7:53 am

I'd rather have a D10 or D20 if we went that way.

Ziggi Abschuss · Post by **Ziggi Abschuss** » Sun Apr 10, 2005 8:39 am

Well, I kinda agree with DL on the D20 (I mean that's a very common base for rules). D100 was just a suggestion on taking BB back to its WHFRPG roots

Ziggi

Colin · Post by **Colin** » Sun Apr 10, 2005 2:43 pm

d100 works fine in an RPG setting, but I'd have to agree that d10 or d20 (or even a d8) would work better.

Pink Horror · Post by **Pink Horror** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 2:19 am

I'd prefer a system that allowed a variety of different ways to screw with the dice instead of only having pluses and minuses. I don't think we really need more than five different chances for success on a single roll. We could use a few interesting ways to combine rolls.

For example, if you like the funny-shaped dice, the core stats, of which we would have no more than six I think, might be types of dice. Each stat could then be d4, d6, d8, d10, d12, or d20. Six different variations for each stat could be enough. I'd worry about the huge leap from d12 to d20, but I'm not a fan of stat increases anyway. I like how skills define the majority of improvements.

So, is that part of the White Wolf system too, or does a different system use different dice based on the stats?

Also, I would like the game to be heavier on cards. Five cards per drive, and being allowed to use one per player action (at any time during the action) seems about right. We need to find ways to squeeze more crazy events into the game.

I would also like every player to have a card. Every turn they're shuffled and placed face down. When it's your turn to move you have to move the top player first. (One of the things I dislike about Blood Bowl is ordering player actions. I know it can be very strategic, but it has nothing to do with the sport itself. A pass should be relatively the same whether you move the receiver first or the passer first.) Anyway, there could be an initiative system like Epic, based on what you do. For instance, if you roll a pancake with your block, you "keep the momentum" (that's what I'd call it) and draw another player to move. Certain actions designed to set up other teammates would give a good chance for keeping the momentum, like hand-offs. Cards could also help with this.

I think there's room for another sports game. Blood Bowl doesn't have to be the king forever. It's only a matter of time before someone puts something fresh together.

Dark Lord (retired) · Post by **Dark Lord (retired)** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 4:56 am

I wouldn't want the cards to take the place of strategy but under the right system that would be alot of fun.

The system I was talking about (and lets face it we probably have to rip somebody off a little bit)
goes like this:

Each stat is measured with a number of D6s. They start at 1D6 and move up by "pips" like 1D6+1, !D6+2, +3 then it rolls over to 2D6 and continues.

I have a system I worked on which I think might work for this, buried in my room somewhere. I'll need a little while to dig it out.

DesTroy · Post by **DesTroy** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 5:45 am

Pink Horror wrote:I'd prefer a system that allowed a variety of different ways to screw with the dice instead of only having pluses and minuses. I don't think we really need more than five different chances for success on a single roll. We could use a few interesting ways to combine rolls.

For example, if you like the funny-shaped dice, the core stats, of which we would have no more than six I think, might be types of dice. Each stat could then be d4, d6, d8, d10, d12, or d20...

So, is that part of the White Wolf system too, or does a different system use different dice based on the stats?

You're probabbly thinking of Hasbro's abomination called BattleBall, meant for children (unlike what you guys have been discussing).

So to put my 2 cents in, what would be so wrong about using d100? All you guys talking about percentages, changes between stat 3 and stat 4 or whatever...what better way to figure in percentages than a system that provides percentages on each and every dice roll?

Or if that's not good enough, simple d10 would work for me, or d20 if we want a "roll below the stat" type game.

Dark Lord (retired) · Post by **Dark Lord (retired)** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 6:08 am

Well what I was saying was "wrong" with a D100 system was that a D10- roll under your stat ranging from 1-10 is ultimately the same thing just simpler and more elegant. Using a D100 in that type of system would mean the stats have to be from 1-100 which makes it overly clunky for little gain in depth. Rolling a 65 or under on a D100 is basically the same as rolling a 6 or under on a D10. Except that in the D10 system the player's value is much easier to calculate.

DesTroy · Post by **DesTroy** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 6:11 am

OK, I can definitely live with that!

Azurus · Post by **Azurus** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 5:37 pm

Pink Horror wrote: I would also like every player to have a card. Every turn they're shuffled and placed face down. When it's your turn to move you have to move the top player first. (One of the things I dislike about Blood Bowl is ordering player actions. I know it can be very strategic, but it has nothing to do with the sport itself. A pass should be relatively the same whether you move the receiver first or the passer first.) Anyway, there could be an initiative system like Epic, based on what you do. For instance, if you roll a pancake with your block, you "keep the momentum" (that's what I'd call it) and draw another player to move. Certain actions designed to set up other teammates would give a good chance for keeping the momentum, like hand-offs. Cards could also help with this.

This is very interesting. I'd also been thinking of using 'momentum' to determine the flow of play.

I think the 'random player order' could take away a lot from the strategy if it was always like that.

How about, you use the 'random player' (actually, we already have 1-16 chits, don't we?) most of the time, but if your 'momentum' is high enough, you get to override this and choose a player to move instead (still removing his card from the deck). If you chose to do this, you run the risk of losing the momentum by forcing the play, and have to make a 'momentum chack' of some sort after that player's action.

Joemanji · Post by **Joemanji** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 8:09 pm

Pink Horror wrote:Also, I would like the game to be heavier on cards. Five cards per drive, and being allowed to use one per player action (at any time during the action) seems about right. We need to find ways to squeeze more crazy events into the game.

Hmm ... somthing like: You may use this card on any player who declares a Move action. Roll a D6, and if you roll a 6 then the player may make a Blitz action instead. This does not count as the team's Blitz action for the turn.

Pink Horror wrote:I'd prefer a system that allowed a variety of different ways to screw with the dice instead of only having pluses and minuses. I don't think we really need more than five different chances for success on a single roll. We could use a few interesting ways to combine rolls.

For example, if you like the funny-shaped dice, the core stats, of which we would have no more than six I think, might be types of dice. Each stat could then be d4, d6, d8, d10, d12, or d20. Six different variations for each stat could be enough. I'd worry about the huge leap from d12 to d20, but I'm not a fan of stat increases anyway. I like how skills define the majority of improvements.

I'm not sure about all these crazy D73 systems. I think there is a lot can be done with the simple D6 roll, and maybe a few extra stats. For example, you could split AG into "Passing" and "Agility" (representing a player's instintive reactions during the game), and then add in another "Initiative" stat (representing a player's awareness, and ability to "see" of the game). These three stats could be combined in different ways as the basis for a variety of feats. For example, you might ask a player to roll 2D6 and score under the combined totals of his AG and IN.

I think you can add another layer of sophistication to BB with only slight changes. And that is what, isn't it, to add one more layer, not drown ourselves under a hundred?

Using the above examples, you might use AG + IN for a leap roll, just AG for a dodge, PA + AG for a dump off, PA + IN for a normal pass, PA + ST for a hail mary pass, IN + MV for shadowing. This level of freedom would let you add in new, rarer feats. For example, a player might be allowed to attempt a third GFI if he can roll under his AG on 2D6. Or a player might be allowed to attempt a "Heroic Leap" for three squares instead of two. This might require you to roll under his AG + IN on 3D6. Or perhaps you could use this mechanism to allow a player to attempt a second normal Leap within the same turn.