Register    Login    Forum    FAQ

Board index » Blood Bowl » New Concepts




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 40 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Old World and Lustrian Teams
 Post Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:27 am 
Super Star
Super Star
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 965
garion wrote:
Similarly vampires are found all over, but their home land is Sylvania mainly. Skaven are a bit different, sure Skavenblight is under the empire iirc. But they are found everywhere and if its to your taste you could include them in a Lustria roster, however I am pretty confident that if you ever released an official "Lustria Pact" with a Skaven player in you would get a fair bit of kick back as skaven are just sooooooooo evil, to me it just doesn't feel right aesthetically. Again if you wanted vamps in a pact team I would rather one that was an undead pact. I just don't think it fits, the zons would be less than happy having a vampire in the dressing room.

Pymgies - So there is very little, Darkson has already pointed out that slann and Pymgies are linked. In 2nd ed companion there was as team called Spearcamp Chieftains, which imo would have been Pygmy themed given that 2nd ed release coincided with 3rd ed wfb . Their stat line would be st2 rather than 1. they are more akin to flings and gobos in size. They certainly don't have to be included though as you say they don't really bring much. Was just a suggestion. I run a Pymgy team in a league and they are ag4 stunties, no big guy, 191 games 46.07% win percentage. One of the most fun rosters I've ever played with. Its not much of a stretch either imo, as we had ag5 fling catchers in 2nd ed. Which would equate to ag4 players now, while the standard fling got ag3 stunty when changed from 2nd to 3rd. Though I don't think you actually need to create any new players, a Zon, Slann, Lizardmen mix gives you a decent amount of options.

I can't check currently as all my stuff is in storage (currently moving house which sucks) but there is a BB mag. I think issue 4 maybe???, that has a bunch of lustrian stuff in it. Whichever edition of the magazine that is, it has a map of Lustria, with blood bowl stadiums on and settlements iirc. I cant remember exactly what's on there but pretty sure its got zon, lizardman and Slann stuff on it. Deffo worth checking out if you have it to hand. If not once I get my stuff out of storage I will post back here. There is also a fluff piece that described the difficulties faced when playing against chameleon skinks and that they were basically invisible, tripping unsuspecting opposition up. There is also some stuff for a lustiran weather table, and Jungle bowl i think.


There already is an undead pact team -- it's called the shambling undead. It has mummies, skeletons, zombies, wights and ghouls -- and you can even add a werewolf or a vampire as a star player.

Unfortunately, the only pygmy miniatures GW has ever released tend to be pretty offensive caricatures (see wolligog). Not really a fan of adding them to the Blood Bowl world. Besides which, as I've mentioned, there's plenty of documented sources of Norse, Vampires and Skaven in Lustria, and they all seem to have a bigger presence in Lustria, fluff-wise, than the pygmies. And again, as you concede, they don't add anything to a team that already has skinks. I think I'd have to say they're definitely out.

Unfortunately, I don't have that copy of Blood Bowl magazine -- I checked my library and didn't find it. Would be interesting to read, though.

_________________
Milo


Image


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Old World and Lustrian Teams
 Post Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 7:12 pm 
Ex-Mega Star, now just a Super Star
Ex-Mega Star, now just a Super Star
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2010 1:59 pm
Posts: 1579
yeah with you there. the figures and names were pretty dodgy back then for Pygmy


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Old World and Lustrian Teams
 Post Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 3:22 pm 
Super Star
Super Star
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 965
Okay, in an attempt to foster some unity between garion, Darkson and I (although I fear such an improbable event may be the seventh sign of the apocalypse), what do you both think of:

LUSTRIAN TEAM B

0-12 Skink 60,000 8 2 3 7 Dodge, Stunty, Animosity A GSP
0-2 Amazon Linewoman 50,000 6 3 3 7 Dodge, Animosity G ASP
0-2 Norse Lineman 6 3 3 7 Block, Animosity G ASP
0-1 Saurus 80,000 6 4 1 9 None, Animosity GS AP
0-1 Slann 60,000 6 3 3 8 Leap, Very Long Legs, Animosity G ASP
0-1 Vampire 110,000 6 4 4 8 Blood Lust, Hypnotic Gaze, Regenerate, Animosity GAS P
0-1 Kroxigor 140,000 6 5 1 9 Loner, Bone-head, Mighty Blow, Prehensile Tail, Thick Skull, Animosity S GAP

0-8 Re-roll counters: 70,000 gold pieces each

Special rules:
Vampire can bite either Amazon Linewomen or Norse Linemen instead of Thralls.


This team is MOSTLY reptile/amphibian, so certainly falls into the Lustrian theme better than one based around Amazons and Norse. It does include a Vampire, who I consider to be more "neutral" than most of the other undead, and depending on whether he sparkles or not, probably less offensive to the humans. From a fluff perspective, I consider this to be an uneasy alliance, where they put aside most of their differences towards a common goal -- but animosity represents the occasional flare ups and disagreements.

There are two options I would consider on this list:

1. Increase the Amazons to a limit of 0-4, to better represent their relative commonality on the Lustrian continent
2. Add the 0-1 Skaven Lineman.

This team has a SLIGHTLY better ST than a Lizardman team, but slightly worse AV and MA. You do get an AG4 ball handler, but he's constrained by only being able to bite 4-6 players on the team, so needs to stay close to them (and they only have AV7, so can be knocked out easily.) You've got three Blocker/Blitzer players in the Saurus and Norsemen, and between the Skinks and Slann, you have some interesting means of dealing with cages. (Hypnotic Gaze would help there too.)

In short, I think it would fill the background niche of a Lustrian team without duplicating the play experience of another team roster, offering something new.

What do you think, both about the roster as presented and the two options?

_________________
Milo


Image


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Old World and Lustrian Teams
 Post Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 6:28 pm 
Da Spammer
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 12, 2002 10:04 pm
Posts: 23517
Location: Fundamentaling for the BB Illuminati
Your roster + option #2 (the Skaven) and I'm ok with it (I'd still love a Pygmy Star player, but then, I also want the Fimir back).

Option #1 - I'd say no, get some testing done then see if they need the extra 2 players (and blood banks) - always easier to add in then take away.

_________________
SWTC 2017 Stunty Cup winner - never again (until next time!)


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Old World and Lustrian Teams
 Post Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 10:50 am 
Super Star
Super Star
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 965
Darkson wrote:
Your roster + option #2 (the Skaven) and I'm ok with it (I'd still love a Pygmy Star player, but then, I also want the Fimir back).

Option #1 - I'd say no, get some testing done then see if they need the extra 2 players (and blood banks) - always easier to add in then take away.


I agree with your reasoning on Option 1. Let's call it a possible tweak to look at after testing.

I'm okay with a pygmy star player, because we could design one who is unique and not offensive. It would be a good way to make a nod to the pygmy background, without introducing another stunty player type that would be deficient to Skinks in every way. Do you want to take a stab at designing something? My main request would be that the star player have SOMETHING that makes him valuable on a team that already has Skink linemen.

Garion, can you find room in your heart for a Vampire and a Skaven lineman on this team?

A third possibility would be to add a new Skaven Plague Monk star for this team.

_________________
Milo


Image


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Old World and Lustrian Teams
 Post Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 7:46 pm 
Ex-Mega Star, now just a Super Star
Ex-Mega Star, now just a Super Star
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2010 1:59 pm
Posts: 1579
ha :) nope I can't I'd never be on board with it. But who cares what I think as this is a house ruled roster, so you can do what you like.

I would hate to see this roster made legal though.

Out of your two proposals the one with Zone linewomen is the better, Skinks linemen sound like good fun but they are such a pain to replace as they are so expensive. On lizardmen teams this isnt a big problem as skinks can be so well protected by the wall of st4+, but having playtested a few different rosters with skink linemen, 60k stunties is a pain in the backside.

I'll personally never be ok vamps being in team from what is to me a tropical sunny setting of Lustria. As I said before Skaven are just too evil to be in this team for me. Norse I could live with but even that's pushing it for me personally.

So I had a look through the BB magazines I could find online. The map of Lustria only shows home stadiums for amazons, as it is in the Amazon team edition, 2 i think it was. I couldn't find the one with junglebowl rules in but that doesn't matter really.

From BB magazine 3 looks like Skaven are hated by lizardmen and zons. For me this is cannon-
Quote:
Lustrian Teams
Perhaps the most unlikely collection of characters in Blood Bowl, Lustrian Teams nevertheless share a bond of hatred unmatched in the history of the sport. Years of raids and ravages by Dark Elf, Human and Skaven forces have forged a unity that translates very well to the Blood Bowl pitch. Forever treated as second class commoners, these New World warriors are determined to introduce a new order to their Old World tormentors.
0-12 Amazons 6337 dodge, 50k
0-4 skinks 8237 dodge, stunty 60k
Big Guys: Kroxigor, Ogre
Allied Races: Amazons, Norse, Lizardmen


So above is pretty important imo and JJ accredited. The allies list is on the page before and basically says you can have 2 linemen from the teams listed. However in JJ's designer notes he specifies working with one Milo Sharp he said a further house rule is instead of taking 2 linemen from said team you could take 1 positional instead, such as a Saurus.

If we go back a little further to BB magazine issue 2 to the short lived (thank god) 4th edition rule set. It somewhat clarifies Amazons alignment and to me it reads as good. as they can ally with Humans, Unicorns :puke: , Wood elves, High Elves, Halflings. Though even though this supports my feelings I would take this paragraph with a pinch of salt as the allied list is frankly terrible, and in BB mag 3 JJs aforementioned designer notes say that BB mag 2s list should be thrown out of the window (he clearly disliked them).

The Big Guy situation I dunno, Ogre is only really there as he was part of the Norse team back then. It could be kept now, or you could choose a Snow Troll/Yheti if you really wanted. I'm not fussed about that.

So as a stickler for such things I would have to follow what was previously created albeit with Slann included in that allied list. Following the same rules (either 2 linemen or 1 positional) -

0-12 Amazons 6337 dodge, 50k
0-4 skinks 8237 dodge, stunty 60k
0-2 Slann Lineman
0-1 Saurus
0-1 Norse Beserker
0-1 Amazon Blitzer
0-1 Kroxigor
RR70k


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Old World and Lustrian Teams
 Post Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 12:39 am 
Rookie
Rookie

Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2004 1:21 pm
Posts: 22
Good/neutral/evil pacts makes for a nice round distribution.

I don't like the idea of Skaven and Vampires to be on a Lustrian team
purely because they are entirely antagonistic races on the continent.
Amazons have been reported as allies of lizardmen so they fit fine.
While Norse don't really live there, I guess there is enough
connection to have some on the team. No sweaty Yhetti though. Just
because they are neighbours it doesn't mean they are going to team up
together.

I guess you really have to throw out the idea of all players being
linepeople in order to get the team to work, and also get rid of the
0-1 on everything not 0-12. Having 0-6 on Amazon and Norse linepeople
is very interesting. I think I'd prefer to keep the 0-12 on Amazons
and just use Norse positionals to give a bit more depth to the team. A
couple of Berserkers and maybe go with a couple of Saurus too. I'd
leave out races that aren't even in BB right now.

So second attempt:
0-12 Amazons 50,000 6 3 3 7 Dodge G ASP
0-2 Norse Berserkers 90,000 6 3 3 7 Block, Frenzy, Jump Up GS AP
0-2 Saurus 80,000 6 4 1 9 None GS AP
0-1 Skink 60,000 8 2 3 7 Dodge, Stunty A GSP
0-1 Slaan 60,000 6 3 3 8 Leap, Very Long Legs G ASP
0-1 Kroxigor 140,000 6 5 1 9 Loner, Bone-head, Mighty Blow, Prehensile
Tail, Thick Skull S GAP

0-8 Re-roll counters: 70,000 gold pieces each

_________________
Cornixt


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Old World and Lustrian Teams
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 8:19 pm 
Rookie
Rookie

Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 9:23 am
Posts: 55
Based on what I have seen, this is my idea (whether it's any good, I don't know). It is all for fun. This is my first roster. I chose Skinks as my main lineman positional as it fits more to the Lustrian feel, plus I really don't agree with the Amazon team. The whole point of their fluff is they are Norse Valkyries/ women folk who turned their backs on the Norse men folk and ran off into the jungle to form their own community, living on a large island in the mouth of the Amaxon River. Even if they wanted to play BB, realistically they wouldn't have the numbers to ever field more than 1 team, period. Not to mention if they have a game where half the team end up dead and injured (av 7) they would be stuffed. The majority of their population would be wiped out. Why would they risk that?! Why they weren't called Valkyries from the start and their fluff simply being to show up the Norse men for not letting them play on their teams because they think they are too weak to play BB? (Valkyries point out, that in fact, it is the Norse men who are weak due to them using Ulfwerenars and Snow Trolls where the Norse women do not need to) I don't know. Now that's out of the way :lol: back to topic.
So the team has 1 Amazon player and it's the blitzer (best player tries to make up for one of the big guy Pact spots). The Norse Runner is there as he covers the Norse presence, plus has the mv of a Skaven and Dauntless to match St 5 players (and so kind of takes the 2nd big guy spot)

0-16 Skinks 60,000 8 2 3 7 Dodge, Stunty, Animosity A GSP
0-1 Slann 60,000 6 3 3 8 Leap, Very Long Legs, Animosity G ASP
0-1 Saurus 80,000 6 4 1 9 Animosity GS AP
0-1 Norse Runners 90,000 7 3 3 7 Block, Dauntless, Animosity GA SP
0-1 Amazon Blitzers 90,000 6 3 3 7 Block, Dodge, Animosity GS AP
0-1 Kroxigor 140,000 6 5 1 9 Loner, Bone-head, Mighty Blow, Prehensile Tail, Thick Skull, Animosity S GAP

Re Rolls - 70k each
Apothecary - Yes
Stars - Helmut Wulf, Hemlock, Slibli, Quetzal-leap, Zara the Slayer, Morg

Having done this roster, however, I do agree with Garion about the skinks being a pain to replace. I had a friendly against an Orc player last week and all but one of my skinks were off the pitch in 2-3 turns! We drew 1-1 but the first half was a right mess for my team! So even though I disagree with the Amazons being numerous enough to be able to make numerous BB teams, here is my second idea...

ROSTER 2
0-12 Amazon Linewomen 50,000 6 3 3 7 Dodge, Animosity G ASP
0-4 Skinks 60,000 8 2 3 7 Dodge, Stunty, Animosity* A GSP
0-1 Slann 60,000 6 3 3 8 Leap, Very Long Legs, Animosity G ASP
0-1 Saurus 80,000 6 4 1 9 Animosity* GS AP
0-1 Norse Runners 90,000 7 3 3 7 Block, Dauntless, Animosity GA SP
0-1 Kroxigor 140,000 6 5 1 9 Loner, Bone-head, Mighty Blow, Prehensile Tail, Thick Skull, Animosity* S GAP

Re Rolls - 70k each
Apothecary - Yes
Stars - Helmut Wulf, Hemlock, Slibli, Quetzal-leap, Zara the Slayer, Morg

*Special rule - Lizardman player positionals (Skink, Saurus, Krox) do not suffer from Animosity when passing or handing off the ball to each other as they are of the same race (They may be different species of lizard, but are ALL of the lizardmen RACE. Much like Chaos Marauders on a Pact/Renegades team as where some of whom are thugs or marauders from the far north, the majority are outcasts from existing (human) teams and so can work together). Animosity between Slann and Lizardmen exist on this team as the slann generally lord over the lizardmen. Slann think themselves superior to the lizardmen and lizardmen hate the Slann for being arrogant overlords.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Old World and Lustrian Teams
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 8:23 pm 
Rookie
Rookie

Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 9:23 am
Posts: 55
I've just realised that the Stars I gave them are simply the Lizardmen / Slann Stars but with Zara replacing Lottabottol. I was just looking at the allied Races which make the roster and choosing Stars which play for those teams - Helmut (Norse), Hemlock (lizard), Slibli (lizard), Quetzal (slann), Zara (zons) and Morg (ogre)


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Old World and Lustrian Teams
 Post Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 8:19 am 
Ex-Mega Star, now just a Super Star
Ex-Mega Star, now just a Super Star
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2010 1:59 pm
Posts: 1579
FYI Zara is not an Amazon.

She is a human, found and raised by Dwarfs to kill undead.


Top 
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
 
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 40 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3

Board index » Blood Bowl » New Concepts


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users

 
 

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to: