Dice cups and novelty dice

[mattwhile]

Was talking about these recently and wanted to see what the general consensus was.

Do you think the use of dice cups should be mandatory and included as part of the rulespack for each tournament? I've witnessed some 'suspect' dice throwing myself, and it also stops the seaching around the floor for them when they go off the table.

Also where do you stand on novelty dice? Should they be banned? Does it create bad feelings if you ask your opponent to swap his dice for 'standard' ones? If you do ask, does it give the impression that you're taking it too seriously? Has anyone ever refused to swap their dice?

[betterZthenDeaD]

I agree with you Matt about dice cups.

I've witnessed some 'suspect' dice throwing myself, and it also stops the seaching around the floor for them when they go off the table.

I had this happen to me in our league last week. Only thing was it was my own roll that was dodgy! Think it was double sixes (when I picked the dice up they were showing sixes)from a particularly limp roll. I felt really bad! What made it worse was it cas'd Puggy Baconbreath off the pitch. As a fellow 'Fling player it hurt I can tell you!

But yeah, in all seriousness dice cups seem to be the way forward. Just need to find one I like!

[sann0638]

I think there should be also be a "how to use dice cups" document.

1) Put in the dice.
2) Shake the dice cup vigorously.
3) Turn upside down.

Omission of any of these steps can cause problems with dice rolling.

Only half joking...

Mike

[Darkson]

No to dice cups - although I own one, I don't like using it (feels "wrong").

I don't mind novelty dice, but think it should be in the tourney rules that an opponent can ask you not to use them.

[dazlamb]

No to having to use a dice I feel it feels wrong too. And what is it with dice cup users re-rolling their dice without looking surely this gives people esp an advantage and feels wrong to me as well.

[sann0638]

And what is it with dice cup users re-rolling their dice without looking surely this gives people esp an advantage and feels wrong to me as well.

Eh?

[mubo]

Think he means the habit some people have of rolling, and then deciding either to reroll dice they haven't seen, or saying something like "actually I won't use the RR there". I do this on occassion, and I don't see an issue.

I do prefer people to use a dice cup, however I would never insist. I don't believe anyone would (or even could) seek to gain an advantage that way. More importantly a dice cup does eliminate 'cocked' dice, which can be a problem, and sometimes critical. I'd support a rulespack that enforced them, I just use a paper coffee cup, so not expensive or hard to get hold of.

I do dislike novelty dice, but don't believe they are unfair. However when someone is having a bit of a hot streak, it does enter people's heads that they might be. I always mean to ask my opponent to share dice, but forget in most cases...and it feels mean to ask half way through in case people think I think their dice are dodgy.

[Corvidius]

Hate Dice Cups, not for any competitive reason but just the rattle rattle thump of them. They just annoy the hell out of me.

What do we mean by novelty dice? Just alternative dice? My favored set of dice are currently my black NAF dice but for a while i was exclusively using Green Impact dice. Only time anyone has mentioned dice in competition was recently when someone asked to share dice, I said sure because other than having communal table dice that's the fairest non sour taste leaving method of keeping things cool.

Once in our league someone called my dice into question because i'd had a run of good luck. I thought that a bit insulting and did some test rolling of the dice, handed him the results and someone else ran an independent test. Both showed the dice rolling average but showed a dramatic shift in success due to skills. Block, Dodge, Tackle, Mighty Blow, Guard, Was amazing the difference skills made and the perception of the dices luck when they were used for Blocks, Armour and Injury.

So, in summary, Dice cups = Noisy ouchness, Sharing Dice = awesome fairness, asking someone not to use their dice = just sounds mean.

[lunchmoney]

Dice cups = If you want to use one, go ahead. Just dont slam it down so as to shake the table, as that defeats some of the point.
Novelty dice = Use 'em if you want. I use pairs of Spikey Club dice, Shaun the Sheep dice, and my own Exiles dice. If my opponent wants to use them, not a problem. Of course my dice are charged for me and seem to know when someone else is holdong them, but that's a different story......

[spubbbba]

I have no issue with novelty dice as long as they are consistent, having some with a symbol as a 1 and others with it as a 6 is very dodgy.

Personally I hate dice cups, the constant slamming them on the table all game gives me a headache and it is particularly bad if it’s the first game of the day and you are hungover and/or suffering from a lack of sleep.

That whole rolling first and then deciding whether to look at the dice thing is a huge pain as well. I wouldn’t attend a tournament that made cups compulsory and would be more likely to go to one that banned them outright.

[Joemanji]

I've also seen some very odd dice rolling actions (in one case literal tipping). I also prefer dice cups but I'm not sure I'd enforce them. I don't understand people not liking dice cups - banging them down is a fault of the coach, not the cup. They can be used quietly! They remove a bit of doubt (that's why they are used in casinos) and stop dice rolling off the table. I find the ability to 'take back' a roll before revealing the dice underneath the cup a useful and valid aid too.

I don't like it sometimes when my opponent uses novelty dice and rolls high, especially ones that I am unfamiliar with. But I see this as a fault in me; I know they aren't cheating but can't help feeling slightly suspicious, which spoils the game a bit. Perhaps enforcing a shared pool of dice for every game is an alternative way to reduce the perception of fishy dice.

But if we recommended either measure I think we'd be called out for taking things too seriously. It is also not NAF policy to enforce (or even strongly recommend) rules of this kind. Just about the only thing we do insist on is that the tournament be open to all. If we were going to start introducing rules for tournaments, there are many other things I'd like to prioritze (such as not using wildly unbalanced bonus points).

[Leipziger]

When it comes to dice, I think you only need to have two things in the rules pack:

1) that if requested then you have to share your dice (already in a number of rulespacks)
2) get people to agree before the game starts what constitutes a cocked dice, as some people will insist on dice being absolutely flat on the board before they'll accept them and others will take the roll if the dice has, for example, landed on a base but is clearly a skull/6 etc.

I've no problem with whether people use dice cups or just roll their dice with their hand. The only dice rolling I'd seek to eliminate is the Polar Bear patented dice spin as it adds 4 hours to what is already going to be a 7 hour match

[Wightlord]

Find dice cups really useful for eliminating cocked/flying/lost dice etc as well as giving you a brief moment to ponder if you have made the right decision before you lift the cup and the result stands.

No problem with novelty dice as long as they are easy to read at the other end of the table - a couple of the novelty block dice sets out there arn't all that clear (at least not to me and I have normal eyesight).

[nazgob]

I enjoy using my dice cups, but wouldn't make them mandatory.

As for dice, well that's more complicated. I've definitely found some custom dice that are, shall we say, biased. I think the solution might be to run a tournament with free dice and state that all coaches must use those free dice.

But personally, I can live with it - I don't think that the majority of dice are a problem.

[Leipziger]

I think the solution might be to run a tournament with free dice and state that all coaches must use those free dice.

It is a good idea, but sometimes you just end up with uber-bleating... Please see the Waterbowl 1-dayer and (much more famously) the Flame Bowl for reference...