Will Star Players be allowed at the next Blood Bowl?

Joemanji · Post by **Joemanji** » Fri Oct 31, 2003 2:12 pm

Will Star Players be allowed at the next Blood Bowl? Any official word on this yet?

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Fri Oct 31, 2003 2:36 pm

Last I heard ... JJ was VERY seriously considering using the GenCon system to allow stars at this year's Blood Bowl.

Galak

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Fri Oct 31, 2003 2:42 pm

GalakStarscraper wrote:Last I heard ... JJ was VERY seriously considering using the GenCon system to allow stars at this year's Blood Bowl.

I'd prefer no stars at all, but if we must have them its a better solution than the last time.

I know I'll take Goblins with all the stars. That will be fun!

Joemanji · Post by **Joemanji** » Fri Oct 31, 2003 2:48 pm

You got a link to the GenCon system?

I'd prefer no stars at all. I would strongly prefer no stars.

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Fri Oct 31, 2003 2:56 pm

ianwilliams wrote:
GalakStarscraper wrote:Last I heard ... JJ was VERY seriously considering using the GenCon system to allow stars at this year's Blood Bowl.
I'd prefer no stars at all, but if we must have them its a better solution than the last time.

I know I'll take Goblins with all the stars. That will be fun!

Morg's too expensive under the GenCon system for a Goblin team coming in at 660k.

My Goblin team of Death for GenCon was:
2 Trolls (200k)
Ripper (200k)
Varag (220k)
Fungus (60k)
Nobbla (80k)
5 Goblins (160k)
FF 4
No rerolls

Oh what fun ....

Galak

For those that don't remember ... GenCon rules for stars that Chet and I developed:

Star Players without secret weapons cost their price + (any amount over 100k)
Star Players with secret weapons cost LRB price
Star Players without secret weapons cannot use team rerolls
Two stars of the same type cannot play against each other and will sit out unless they have secret weapons.

Final note ... uniamious agreement based on GenCon ... Zug will be the one exception to the rule and will cost 160k for next year's GenCon Bowl.

Galak

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Fri Oct 31, 2003 2:58 pm

Nazgit wrote:You got a link to the GenCon system?

I'd prefer no stars at all. I would strongly prefer no stars.

Thing to remember. Other than Humans with Zug (see above note) ... teams without stars at GenCon did better overall than teams with stars for ALL the races (barring humans). IE taking a Star Player hurt your chances of doing well at GenCon. The money it sucked up was better used somewhere else if you wanted to win.

Also no team with a star player won ANY of the performance trophies out of the 60 teams at GenCon. 1st, 2nd, 3rd place; Most TDs, and Most CAS where all won by teams without Star Players ... ie it worked in my opinion.

Galak

Post by **Thadrin** » Fri Oct 31, 2003 3:18 pm

I'd still rather have no stars whatsoever. I really don't like them. At all. That Goblin team is EVIL...and I'm betting Luthor will still show up a lot on undead teams.

Joemanji · Post by **Joemanji** » Fri Oct 31, 2003 3:23 pm

GalakStarscraper wrote:Morg's too expensive under the GenCon system for a Goblin team coming in at 660k.

My Goblin team of Death for GenCon was:
2 Trolls (200k)
Ripper (200k)
Varag (220k)
Fungus (60k)
Nobbla (80k)
5 Goblins (160k)
FF 4
No rerolls

The system sounds OK, and seems to work.

A couple of questions though:

- What was the starting value of GenCon teams? 1m? 1.1m? What about at the BloodBowl?
- In your example Morg costs double for a Goblin team (assuming 660K was a typo and you meant 560K) but Varag doesn't cost double. Is this right?

Joemanji · Post by **Joemanji** » Fri Oct 31, 2003 3:24 pm

Still, no stars is my preference. Maybe allow Gobbos their secret weapons.

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Fri Oct 31, 2003 3:33 pm

Thadrin wrote:...and I'm betting Luthor will still show up a lot on undead teams.

Luthor
2 Mummies
1 Wight
2 Ghouls
5 Zombies
2 FF
2 TRR

Nasty, but certainly not as bad as one with another 80k to spend. Its only got 11 players for starters.

Take away broken Piling On and I don't think I'd be too worried (so long as I'd already got Strip Ball

)

Gorbad · Post by **Gorbad** » Fri Oct 31, 2003 3:44 pm

ianwilliams wrote:
Thadrin wrote:...and I'm betting Luthor will still show up a lot on undead teams.
Take away broken Piling On and I don't think I'd be too worried (so long as I'd already got Strip Ball )

If someone showed up with an unofficial undead team, I wouldn't be worried at all

Flesh Golems have no Mighty Blow and ST4, though Luthor is still a nasty piece of work.

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Fri Oct 31, 2003 3:53 pm

Nazgit wrote:- In your example Morg costs double for a Goblin team (assuming 660K was a typo and you meant 560K) but Varag doesn't cost double. Is this right?

Oops ... yup .. my bad ... scrag Varag from that team. Try this instead:
My Goblin team of Death for GenCon was:
2 Trolls (200k)
Ripper (200k)
Thrud (100k)
Fungus (60k)
Nobbla (80k)
5 Goblins (160k)
FF 4
2 rerolls

Galak

Also GenCon was 1mil just like the Blood Bowl for starting.

Also the best Undead team at GenCon did not have Luthor. Undead won the GenCon Bowl. Luthor is great but at 260k and unable to use team rerolls he is a significantly reduced threat.

Galak

Joemanji · Post by **Joemanji** » Fri Oct 31, 2003 8:41 pm

Still underpriced IMO. Griff costs 260K by GenCon. But were you to take him for 6 games of your local tournament, he would cost 540K - more than twice as much!

I don't see the need for Star Players, I really don't. They require no knowledge or tactics to use whatsoever. To me, they cause the same problem that all WFB and 40K tournaments have - that games are won are lost before they are played, because one person's army list is better. This is totally avoidable in BB, simply by removing SPs. So why don't we?

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Fri Oct 31, 2003 9:08 pm

Nazgit wrote:Griff costs 260K by GenCon. But were you to take him for 6 games of your local tournament, he would cost 540K - more than twice as much!

Your league also gets gold rolls after games that you don't get at the Blood Bowl. Out of 60 teams not a single team had Griff at GenCon. If you think he's a deal at 260k with no reroll use ... I'll play you with a Human team that doesn't buy Griff via PBeM and I think I can readily show you that he's not a deal at that price. You've given up too much in the development of the rest of your team.

So why don't we?

Because they can be balanced in my opinion. Because some folks see them as fun, and because if you can balance them for cost/benefit it then becomes one more part of tactical play and team strategy.

Galak

Joemanji · Post by **Joemanji** » Fri Oct 31, 2003 9:17 pm

Cool. Is the BloodBowl itself vanilla 1 mil to buy a team?