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2017 feedback
http://www.talkfantasyfootball.org/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=43960
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Author:  rolo [ Tue May 02, 2017 1:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2017 feedback

At tournaments which I've been to, it always seems to be the same people over and over again who have problems finishing their games on time. Especially when two of those coaches play each other.

And, I'm not going to name and shame, but I suspect some coaches of playing slowly for tactical reasons. That is, I've played against coaches who take forever for their first-half offensive turns, then there's only a half hour or so left for their my second-half offense. In the worst case that I can remember, by the time the Ref came by and ruled that we should play our turn out and then the game was over, I'd had (I think) four turns of offense.
(This player's games were always the last to finish, throughout the whole tournament).

I'm not sure what a referee or organizer can do about this, but it's extremely irritating and ruined my enjoyment of that game. My suggestion is that repeat offenders get put on a chess clock for their remaining games.

Author:  Joemanji [ Tue May 02, 2017 1:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2017 feedback

rolo wrote:
And, I'm not going to name and shame, but I suspect some coaches of playing slowly for tactical reasons. That is, I've played against coaches who take forever for their first-half offensive turns, then there's only a half hour or so left for their my second-half offense. In the worst case that I can remember, by the time the Ref came by and ruled that we should play our turn out and then the game was over, I'd had (I think) four turns of offense.
(This player's games were always the last to finish, throughout the whole tournament).

I'm not sure what a referee or organizer can do about this, but it's extremely irritating and ruined my enjoyment of that game. My suggestion is that repeat offenders get put on a chess clock for their remaining games.
This is definitely a thing to look out for. I think the only way is to manage it proactively. If you have suspicions of your opponent and they start being slow then ask for a chess clock from turn 2-3 of the first half.

Author:  straume [ Tue May 02, 2017 2:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2017 feedback

Joemanji wrote:
If you have suspicions of your opponent and they start being slow then ask for a chess clock from turn 2-3 of the first half.


Actually yes, indeed. And you don`t really need to be suspicious either. Your enjoyment can be won back by yourself in using two easy steps.

Step1: Install Chess clock on your phone.
Step2: If you get annoyed at someone taking 30 minutes in their first 3 turns, suggest politely that you share the remainder of the time on the clock (40 mins each, or whatever amount of time you have left). Noone will mind. And you will avoid your grief.

Author:  PeterD [ Tue May 02, 2017 6:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2017 feedback

Hey Hawca!
Superthanks to you and all of your helping hands behind that great tournament!
It was worth it, sitting in the car for 12 hours, coming from the deep dark teutonic woods to Nottingham!
See you all next year!
1000 greetings
peterd

Author:  Garrick [ Tue May 02, 2017 7:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2017 feedback

rolo wrote:
At tournaments which I've been to...

Not a single NAF Championship it appears :lol:

Author:  rolo [ Tue May 02, 2017 7:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2017 feedback

Garrick wrote:
rolo wrote:
At tournaments which I've been to...

Not a single NAF Championship it appears :lol:


Sadly no, my travel budget is modest enough that I have to pick and choose international tournaments. EurOpen beat you guys out, at least for this year.

But there was a discussion about games finishing on time at the NAF Championship, and I figured my experience was relevant. Slow players are irritating, (alleged) intentionally slow players more so, at any tournament. Including the NAFC.

Author:  Garrick [ Tue May 02, 2017 11:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2017 feedback

Just noticed that the Blue NAF d6 dice are back to the quality of the older White and Red NAF d6 dice - another quality improvement that is appreciated.

Author:  Pipey [ Wed May 03, 2017 6:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2017 feedback

This rule from the NAFC 2017 pack...

We ask that all players be prepared to be placed on timed turns, as required. Please consider downloading a chess clock application to your mobile phone or tablet. We will use a chess clock system similar to that used at the NAF World Cup in 2015, as below.

Chess clocks are likely to be implemented by the referees if with one hour remaining in the round the match has not yet reached the second half. Please keep an eye on the time and listen carefully to the organiser’s announcements. When chess clocks are implemented each player will be allowed strictly 30 minutes to complete the round using a “death clock” system. Each player will alternately stop and start their own 30 minute countdown during their turns only. This will also include any other time spent within the remaining 30 minutes, including setting up before a drive. If either player’s chess clock time runs out they will only be allowed to do three things 1) move their turn counter 2) turn over stunned players and 3) stand up prone players. The referees will be on hand to support you with this as required.


...is there in effort to prevent the situation that Rolo describes i.e. a slow player using the lion's share of available time and therefore causing his/her opponent to rush unfairly, or not complete the match at all. We stop short of enforcing timed turns or chess clocks on all games from turn one.

Author:  mubo [ Wed May 03, 2017 11:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2017 feedback

Overall- I think it was a terrific effort- well done all. Very smooth- no redraws, mishaps, must have been a lot of work behind the scenes. Just a couple of suggestions:

Why not use twitter to publish the rounds- their servers should be more robust than the NAFs?

At the risk of opening a *massive* can of worms- I think it's time to move to a McMahon system for swiss tournaments above 160 players. Briefly, give some higher ranked players a point so they meet each other sooner. I think you want to find about 1/2 to 2/3 the field, so perhaps having a max NAF ranking of > 170 gets you a point? (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McMahon_system_tournament). The down side is that you may prevent a newcomer going on a 6-0-0 run and winning the whole thing, but upside is that noone misses a final on 5-0-0. Or perhaps even do it not on rankings, but people get a point if they say they want one when registering.

Author:  sann0638 [ Wed May 03, 2017 12:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2017 feedback

Ah, those lovely worms. Worth thinking about, definitely. Big chat on Facebook about this too.

Author:  dfunkateer [ Wed May 03, 2017 12:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2017 feedback

Other than the wavy pitches (which was only a minor irritation and has already been mentioned) I have nothing but praise for all concerned. The level of organisation needed both before the event and on the day to keep a tournament of that size running as smoothly as it did is simply awesome.

Having the pitches as the prize for winning the last game was also a great touch - big thanks to Lycos for being an absolute gent and letting me keep the pitch :D

Roll on 2018!

Author:  rolo [ Wed May 03, 2017 12:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2017 feedback

mubo wrote:
The down side is that you may prevent a newcomer going on a 6-0-0 run and winning the whole thing, but upside is that noone misses a final on 5-0-0. Or perhaps even do it not on rankings, but people get a point if they say they want one when registering.


Even with McMahon, if the lowest seeds ends up going X-0-0, they'll win. By definition, they'll have beaten their top competition after about round 3 or so.
(The only restriction is that there needs to be enough rounds that any two coaches who win every game eventually have to play each other)

Author:  hawca [ Wed May 03, 2017 12:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2017 feedback

A lot of posts to try find the perfect scoring system.
With 200 coaches there will always be flaws. And only 6 games.

Author:  Purplegoo [ Wed May 03, 2017 1:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2017 feedback

I appreciate that it's traditional, but if I had a magic wand, I'd drop the final.

You get one more round. The SoS to separate points ties matures by another round, making it more accurate. No one misses out if there is no final to miss out on. On top of all of that, there are practical advantages. If we get two moderately slow players in the final one year and it goes to eight turns of OT, what's the plan? Wait? Do awards through the final while they're concentrating? I think we've been pretty lucky to date.

Just adding to the discussion - I love the NAFC and if it never changed, I'd never be unhappy.

Author:  hawca [ Wed May 03, 2017 1:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2017 feedback

while many good points are raised, one issue i see with the system mentioned is, where do we apply the ranking? is it any team over 170? or the race used?

how do you explain to a coach that despite going 5-0-0 he missed the final due to SOS over a 4-1-0 coach with the BP.

what happens when you fancy a stunt cup run, you turn up with your goblins only to draw an 'elite' player and his T1 side

the final is something different, its unique and not many do it, if we dropped a final we no longer have a league winner.

one thing that is good, is if were looking at this we must have got the rest right :D

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