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 Post subject: Re: NAF Championship 2017 FAQ
 Post Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 5:45 pm 
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hawca wrote:
Ok

The duel.

The rules say 60mm

This is to stop people doing overly large and the paint job becoming second to the painting.

As for previous events this is my first planned and run solely by me. When I ran out last years. In both cases this rule has been met and needs to for this competition.

The argue the ref does say once in a game.

It's basically a crap bribe

The Duel decision - hurrah! Forgive my previous bleating but prior to your glorious puissant reign of the NAFC the organisers allowed a serious painter, who knew full well what he was doing, to break the rules to his advantage.

Argue the Call - the rules do not say once per game (I have appended them to this post) so is this a specific NAFC rule as I cannot see it in the rule pack? It is worth noting that the rules do state that you need a Head Coach figure (representing you!) to 'Argue the Call'. Mike Davies, NAF has clarified that the NAF do not require a Head Coach figure to 'Argue the Call' this is up to the TO.

NOTES

A Head Coach can ‘Argue the Call’ on a sending off (DZ1 page 38 Coaching Staff):

Head Coach

This model represents you, and so does not cost any gold to hire for the team. During a match, your main job is to yell and shout at the players in your team in order to inspire them and, more importantly, to yell and shout at the referee if they make a call against your team. If you have a suitable miniature representing your Head Coach, you can argue the call when one of your players is sent off for committing a foul or using a Secret Weapon. Roll D6. On a roll of 6, the referee accepts your argument (or, at the very least, believes your thinly-veiled threats) and the player in question is only sent to the Reserves box instead of being sent off entirely. On a roll of 1, the referee has had enough of your lip and ejects you from the game! Remove your Head Coach from the Dugout. For the rest of the game you cannot argue any calls, and if the ‘Brilliant Coaching’ result is rolled on the Kick-off table, subtract 1 from your dice roll.


PS Having reread the rules I can now see that poor rule writing has left ambiguity in this section: Does the last sentence refer to the previous sentence "On a roll of 1," or to the paragraph as a whole, i.e. Do you remove your Head Coach on a roll of 1 or for arguing the call in the first place? Who do we approach for a rule clarification as the only clarification so far to this section is: Add the following to the end of the paragraph: “Note that if the call is successfully argued and the player is sent to the Reserves box, a Turnover is still caused.”

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Last edited by Garrick on Sat Mar 25, 2017 7:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: NAF Championship 2017 FAQ
 Post Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 5:59 pm 
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It was my reading of this.

Is one of your players is sent off you can argue the call.


That said after Re reading you can argue until your sent to the stands.

So with this in mind I will seek clarification and let you know.

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 Post subject: Re: NAF Championship 2017 FAQ
 Post Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 12:32 pm 
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Garrick wrote:
Head Coach

This model represents you, and so does not cost any gold to hire for the team. During a match, your main job is to yell and shout at the players in your team in order to inspire them and, more importantly, to yell and shout at the referee if they make a call against your team. If you have a suitable miniature representing your Head Coach, you can argue the call when one of your players is sent off for committing a foul or using a Secret Weapon. Roll D6. On a roll of 6, the referee accepts your argument (or, at the very least, believes your thinly-veiled threats) and the player in question is only sent to the Reserves box instead of being sent off entirely. On a roll of 1, the referee has had enough of your lip and ejects you from the game! Remove your Head Coach from the Dugout. For the rest of the game you cannot argue any calls, and if the ‘Brilliant Coaching’ result is rolled on the Kick-off table, subtract 1 from your dice roll.


PS Having reread the rules I can now see that poor rule writing has left ambiguity in this section: Does the last sentence refer to the previous sentence "On a roll of 1," or to the paragraph as a whole, i.e. Do you remove your Head Coach on a roll of 1 or for arguing the call in the first place? Who do we approach for a rule clarification as the only clarification so far to this section is: Add the following to the end of the paragraph: “Note that if the call is successfully argued and the player is sent to the Reserves box, a Turnover is still caused.”


Thanks for the quote of the rules Garrick. I agree the rules are not unambiguous, however I'm pretty sure no clarification is needed. Common sense dictates that the sentences after "On a roll of 1" refer to that state. Otherwise the only consequence unique to the "1" is that you get ejected from the game (no material consequence, only fluff). To read the sentences after that as referring to the whole paragraph seems disingenuous.

I can see that there is no clear statement either way on whether you can argue the call more than once, however I believe the key statement is in the red highlighted text above. If you were unable to argue the call more than once, why the need for that text ... as a statement it relies on the assumption that you can argue the call more than once ...

That would be my assessment of it, but happy that Hawca has taken it as a point for clarification, and will wait for an "Official" response.


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 Post subject: Re: NAF Championship 2017 FAQ
 Post Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 1:32 pm 
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The original "Argue the Call" rule, which this one is based on, was for as many times as you got sent off, up until the point the Head Coach (you) were also ejected.
I can't see anything in the new rule that supersedes that (and I know I allowed multiple AtC rolls at the ARBBL).

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 Post subject: Re: NAF Championship 2017 FAQ
 Post Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 8:19 pm 
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Garrick wrote:
The Duel decision - hurrah! Forgive my previous bleating but prior to your glorious puissant reign of the NAFC the organisers allowed a professional painter, who knew full well what he was doing, to take the piss.


I assume you are talking about my entry? Firstly, I am no profssional painter, secondly the enlarged size of the base was discussed with the organisers via email way before the actual event, and the 'OK' was given.

No 'piss' was taken.

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 Post subject: Re: NAF Championship 2017 FAQ
 Post Posted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 2:28 pm 
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hawca wrote:
Ok

The duel.

The rules say 60mm

This is to stop people doing overly large and the paint job becoming second to the painting.



Just to be clear I wasn't planning on building an empty stadium. My plan incorporated some degree of inferred "movement" which required the 2 miniatures to be slightly further apart, I tried putting them closer but it looked crap... so back to the drawing board.

Not to worry - though I honestly don't understand what you mean by "the paint job becoming second to the painting" to me they are both the same - cheers in advance for the clarification.

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 Post subject: Re: NAF Championship 2017 FAQ
 Post Posted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 7:58 pm 
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Bsking wrote:
Thanks for the quote of the rules Garrick. I agree the rules are not unambiguous, however I'm pretty sure no clarification is needed. Common sense dictates that the sentences after "On a roll of 1" refer to that state. Otherwise the only consequence unique to the "1" is that you get ejected from the game (no material consequence, only fluff). To read the sentences after that as referring to the whole paragraph seems disingenuous.

I can see that there is no clear statement either way on whether you can argue the call more than once, however I believe the key statement is in the red highlighted text above. If you were unable to argue the call more than once, why the need for that text ... as a statement it relies on the assumption that you can argue the call more than once ...

That would be my assessment of it, but happy that Hawca has taken it as a point for clarification, and will wait for an "Official" response.

Dear Bsking, my interpretation of the rules is the same as yours and I did not even realise there was any opportunity for ambiguity until I reread them in light of Hawca's interpretation. So clarification is needed. Calling Hawca's interpretation 'disingenuous' seems a little harsh and possibly self defeating if you are attending the NAFC :wink: .

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 Post subject: Re: NAF Championship 2017 FAQ
 Post Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 12:48 pm 
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Ok I have a final decision on this ruling for Argue the call.

While clear to some and less clear to others. Me being dyslexic I can make it mean any thing I want to lol


After seeking advise from a good source.

Argue the call can be used for every sending off untill the coach has been sent to the stands.

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 Post subject: Re: NAF Championship 2017 FAQ
 Post Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 1:02 pm 
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hawca wrote:
Ok I have a final decision on this ruling for Argue the call.

While clear to some and less clear to others. Me being dyslexic I can make it mean any thing I want to lol


After seeking advise from a good source.

Argue the call can be used for every sending off untill the coach has been sent to the stands.

The rules do state that you need a Head Coach figure (representing you!) to 'Argue the Call', Mike Davies, NAF has clarified that the NAF do not require a Head Coach figure to 'Argue the Call' and this is up to the TO.

So do we need a Head Coach figure at the NAFC to 'Argue the Call'? Say Yes, go on you know you want to :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: NAF Championship 2017 FAQ
 Post Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 1:48 pm 
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NAF do not use models for coaching staff. But I will meet you half way. You have to be present in your game to argue the call

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 Post subject: Re: NAF Championship 2017 FAQ
 Post Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 1:53 pm 
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hawca wrote:
NAF do not use models for coaching staff. But I will meet you half way. You have to be present in your game to argue the call

That is blatant discrimination! The Scots are quite often not present in our games due to the amount of alcohol our small brains have to process each round.

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 Post subject: Re: NAF Championship 2017 FAQ
 Post Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 9:31 pm 
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hawca wrote:
NAF do not use models for coaching staff. But I will meet you half way. You have to be present in your game to argue the call


Like!

Like, like, likety like! :lol:

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