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 Post subject: Attendance
 Post Posted: Mon May 10, 2010 11:37 am 
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Hi everyone. I'm not sure how many of you I have met, but I've attended the last five (I think) BBGT's with my good ol' friend Shaniepoo who I think some of you are aware of. This year I brought my wood elves and was smashed to death. But there's always next year.

Anyway one thing that has been very apparent is the dwindling attendance to the Blood Bowl GT over progressive years which is unfortunate. Obviously there are good reasons for people choosing not to go and I'm sure rising ticket prices is one of them, but I was just wondering, given that I'm only just starting to really get onto TFF and more "into the scene" (hopefully I will get to some other tournaments this year), if any of you could shed some light for my personal benefit on why more people are opting out of the GT.

Any insight would be appreciated, I'm just trying to get a better picture on the state of the game, so to speak.

Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: Attendance
 Post Posted: Mon May 10, 2010 11:41 am 
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Once you have attended practically any other tourney you'll understand.

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 Post subject: Re: Attendance
 Post Posted: Mon May 10, 2010 11:45 am 
Kommissar Enthusiasmoff
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Tommo, meet Matt. He's very helpful :D

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 Post subject: Re: Attendance
 Post Posted: Mon May 10, 2010 1:05 pm 
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I'm sure others will add to this ... but here is my list for why attendance at the GT is dropped.

1) GW's completely and utter disdain for their own game. Over the last 6 months they have witch hunted down fan sites related to Blood Bowl and published their last version of the Blood Bowl rules developed over 5 years by a committee of the game's fans who then went uncredited for all theirs thousands of hours of work.

2) Its the only Blood Bowl tournament that doesn't work with the NAF at all. Want a great example of this ... its the only event I know of that doesn't allow the three new teams into the event ... even the Dungeonbowl and Chaos Cup which are GW events allow them.

3) The GW employees are completely clueless about Blood Bowl rules and make incredible bad rules calls when left to it.

4) They frequently use a method of scoring for the event that is not fun or inituative.

5) For the price they charge fan run sites would have food, actual prizes for the winners and maybe even a custom made product for the event.

6) Fan run tournaments make sure people don't play the same player twice (or get seeded again them and then have to fix it).

7) Fan run tournaments allow you to use custom boards (which are cool) and other companies miniatures to represent your team (which adds cool variety to the event as well).

8 - Fan run tournament are not so clueless as to list someone as having played Blood Elves at their event. (could not resist this one)

===

In summary ... spend a lot less money and have a lot more fun with folks having a tournament because they love the game and not because they were forced to organize the event.

While its a long way of saying it ... matt was correct ... go to any of the fan run tournaments in the UK that has been around for a couple years and you'll see the difference immediately.

Galak

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 Post subject: Re: Attendance
 Post Posted: Mon May 10, 2010 1:54 pm 
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GalakStarscraper wrote:
8 - Fan run tournament are not so clueless as to list someone as having played Blood Elves at their event. (could not resist this one)


lol. I couldn't even be bothered correcting them. They caught on by round 4 or 5.

It's weird that they seem to hate their own game, I suppose they just want to focus on selling 12 year olds 7000 point armies.


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 Post subject: Re: Attendance
 Post Posted: Mon May 10, 2010 3:39 pm 
Godfather of Blood Bowl
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Tommo wrote:
I suppose they just want to focus on selling 12 year olds 7000 point armies.

I will front this comment that this offered without embellishment. My understanding is that the guide book given to all GW store owners is that this is their only focus.

Last I heard from three different ex-GW store folks is that the company guidebook for retail GW stores is to ignore the needs of the experienced gamer from whom you already have your cash and focus all efforts solely on the young gamer who is new/newer to your store with introductions to WFB and 40k.

As a company policy ... okay I get why you would recommend that. The problem is that this doctrine is not just a suggestion ... its marching orders. As a result it is a rare person within any GW store or headquarters that actually gives a care about an experienced gamer who has stood by or tried to assist their product for years. At GW events this point really gets reinforced how bad it is (like the Chaos Cup 2009 where no one showed up to let all the players into the store for the 2nd day of the event). At fan run tournaments ... its incredibly easy to forget that GW has anything at all to do with the game and just enjoy a great game for what it is ... a great game.

Galak

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 Post subject: Re: Attendance
 Post Posted: Mon May 10, 2010 4:20 pm 
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I went to the 1st 4 or 5 BB GT`s but havent been since and have no intention of going in the future
Tickets are expensive, organisation is very poor and you get treated with disdain by the organisers/staff rather than be made to feel welcome.

GW have all the resources you could need to make a great BB weekend and yet fail to make use of them, a phrase about piss up`s and brewerys spring to mind.

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 Post subject: Re: Attendance
 Post Posted: Mon May 10, 2010 4:37 pm 
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The BBGT is overpriced, but it is still heaps of fun, despite the less than perfect system.

Mainly because you get to see all the regulars and meet people new to the hobby. Also, a 150+ coach tourney is great.

I have been to the last four, and I think the numbers go up and down.

Personally, I think the credit crunch will have dropped 40 or so people off the list this year. I doubt that GW's new legal boss can claim credit for more than 5 missing coaches.

Oh, and if I didn't live in Nottingham, I probably wouldn't go!

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 Post subject: Re: Attendance
 Post Posted: Mon May 10, 2010 4:46 pm 
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I attended in 2005 & 2006 but have not been since, mainly because it means an overnight stay and I now have small children. That said, I've no real inclination to attend again.

It's a real shame that numbers are dropping, because I suspect it is one of the things that has some visibility with GWHQ. It might lead them to think that interest in the game is dropping off.

Can people confirm that this is just the GT suffering, or are other UK tourneys experiencing similar drops in numbers - maybe it's a recession thing...?

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 Post subject: Re: Attendance
 Post Posted: Mon May 10, 2010 5:34 pm 
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I haven't noticed any drop off in numbers. Waterbowl for example sells out every year. In fact, there are now 3 times as many tournaments as there were a couple of years ago, so overall attendance is definitely rising.

I think the main factor contributing to the lower attendance is the increased number of alternative tournaments. Used to be the GT was one of only a few events per year. The foreign coaches no longer need to come over as they have 20 in their own country they can go to.

Sadly, I don't think GWs bad attitude makes that much difference.

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 Post subject: Re: Attendance
 Post Posted: Mon May 10, 2010 10:32 pm 
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I can't speak about this year, but apart from 2007 (last time I went) the numbers for the BBGT have been 120-150 NAF coaches. 2007 was 98. So it fluctuates a bit, but not a huge amount.

In terms of the NAF there seem to me more coaches playing more games pretty much every year since inception.

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 Post subject: Re: Attendance
 Post Posted: Mon May 10, 2010 11:21 pm 
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The dealings i had with GW staff at the GT was all good, very friendly and helpful and showing a keen interest in the game. Well all apart from the little jumped up rules hitler walking around :D

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 Post subject: Re: Attendance
 Post Posted: Mon May 10, 2010 11:37 pm 
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I will just add to Joemanji's point, there was no drop this year, in fact 150 was far higher than I was expecting. There has been bigger numbers but one year was about 120 something another 140. It actually went up.....

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 Post subject: Re: Attendance
 Post Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 12:01 am 
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DoubleSkulls wrote:
I can't speak about this year, but apart from 2007 (last time I went) the numbers for the BBGT have been 120-150 NAF coaches. 2007 was 98. So it fluctuates a bit, but not a huge amount.

In terms of the NAF there seem to me more coaches playing more games pretty much every year since inception.



2008 was 178

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 Post subject: Re: Attendance
 Post Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 1:30 am 
The Glow-Father
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I didnt go to this years GT as I was already commited to "Srumpybowl" and the Gt was moved forward, however id have probably missed it anyway, i enjoyed last years TBH altho i can honestly say i enjoyed the other tourneys (Thrudd,Newquaybowl ect) more.


firebreather wrote:
Tickets are expensive, organisation is very poor and you get treated with disdain by the organisers/staff rather than be made to feel welcome.

I have to agree with this statement, especially the staff part, I didnt enjoy being spoken to like a 14 yr old when i was 14 (and that was a long time ago) but hey...I did have the nerve to ask a question...

firebreather wrote:
GW have all the resources you could need to make a great BB weekend and yet fail to make use of them, a phrase about piss up`s and brewerys spring to mind.

The one thing i did enjoy was Bugmans :D

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