Register    Login    Forum    FAQ

Board index » Community Discussion » Tournament Postings » The NAF Championship




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 63 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Author Message
 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 2:33 pm 
Eternal Rookie
Eternal Rookie
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2008 3:09 am
Posts: 1952
Location: Winchester
GalakStarscraper wrote:
Darkson wrote:
In the tournament proper.
Ruling from GW staff was: "you can use custom pitches, but only with your opponents consent".


BUT THEY SELL THEM!!! (and it should be noted for a heck of a lot more than I did). Its not a "custom pitch" if you BUY it!

Okay ... now I need to go punch something and then after I cooled off decide what I'm doing with that information. Bloody GW!

Galak


I think the GW staff there probably assumed that they were just custom pitches... the more fuss that is made the more likely that the maker of those pitches will recieve a nasty visit from GW. To be honest I consider it a clear infringement of IP, such a board can only really be intended for playing BB with.

In a semi related note what on earth were you thinking when you created Blackrock Clan Dwarfs? They are evil dwarfs served by hobimp (read hobgoblins?) slaves and also bullcentaurs.... as far as I know GW IP is the only place where this concept appears. I think that Impact! already strays quite close quite close to the line. I'd consider very very carefully before you rock the boat, especially if you have already been told that this would be a step too far.

It'd be great if you could bring the pitches back but the last thing I want is for Impact! to perish, tread carefully for all our sakes :)

_________________
Victim of the Colonel's car boot smash. First person to use Glynn's bath.
Update: the Hartlepool family Glynn now has a virgin bath.

Barney is a clever dog.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 3:00 pm 
Experienced
Experienced

Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2008 12:04 pm
Posts: 72
Location: Irun (Spain)
dont know if they could be in trouble (didnt understand well the conversation) but I dont wanna give problems to my spanish coleagues so just left the link to the forum...

_________________
Tournament in Irun (Spain-France frontier)
Our Irun League www.asociaciontempus.com


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 8:50 pm 
Da Spammer
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 12, 2002 10:04 pm
Posts: 23711
Location: Fundamentaling for the BB Illuminati
GalakStarscraper wrote:
Darkson wrote:
In the tournament proper.
Ruling from GW staff was: "you can use custom pitches, but only with your opponents consent".


BUT THEY SELL THEM!!! (and it should be noted for a heck of a lot more than I did). Its not a "custom pitch" if you BUY it!


But as Sillysod said, it was never mentioned they were for sell, so I assume the staff assumed they were custom made, in the same way that Frank's been able to use his custom built boards in the past.
From how they were stickler's for removing non-GW miniatures, I'm guessing if they'd known they were for sell, they'd have asked for them to be removed ASAP.

Just before you do anything that get's Impact in trouble.
Tom, if you want to email me about this, be warned I'm not about much this wekend.

_________________
SWTC 2017 Stunty Cup winner - never again (until next time!)

Khorne and Bretonnian? Sorry, those don't exist - bring a real roster.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 10:40 pm 
Da Ex-Boss

Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2003 11:27 am
Posts: 1452
Location: Reading, UK
Whoa, hold on there Galak. You dont know the full story here.

Re those boards, and in fact also Impact! mini's that were used there as well....

Every year GW get a kicking from us, me included, about the GT. To strict, over handed etc, but this year they used a bit of sense. They noticed the pitches and indeed noticed some impact! mini's too (just ask Treno). They approached me after game one and I pleaded they used some common sense.

Having convinced of them that they (the spanish pitches) were for the world cup (which they were I think) they made an announcement to say if the oppo was happy, then ok, regarding the pitches. Re figs, some quick switching was done.

That's all it was. They were all up for "no, you cant have that" but I tried a bit of "oh, c'mon, they have come a long way, give 'em break yeah" and to be fair they saw a bit of reason.

A classic case of TBB'ers cant have it both ways. you cant in one thread slag GW off for being to strict and in another say they are too soft. There has to be middle ground and for once, fair play to them, they found it.

_________________
TFF mod team


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 11:38 pm 
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2006 9:12 pm
Posts: 214
SillySod wrote:
In a semi related note what on earth were you thinking when you created Blackrock Clan Dwarfs? They are evil dwarfs served by hobimp (read hobgoblins?) slaves and also bullcentaurs.... as far as I know GW IP is the only place where this concept appears.


GW didn't invent evil dwarfs, goblinoid creatures who serve evil overlords, or chimeras. Unless someone started copying the 'big hat' appearance of GW's chaos dwarfs, I think that GW would have a very hard time winning this case.

Even banning the sale of Blood Bowl pitches seems pretty questionable to me, although I'm no expert on IP law. Unless they've patented the board layout, I think they can only hold copyright on the artwork. Maybe Impact! could sell them as rugby playboards or something.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 11:45 pm 
Godfather of Blood Bowl
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2001 1:00 am
Posts: 15856
Location: Indiana, USA
Lycos wrote:
Whoa, hold on there Galak. You dont know the full story here.

Re those boards, and in fact also Impact! mini's that were used there as well....

Every year GW get a kicking from us, me included, about the GT. To strict, over handed etc, but this year they used a bit of sense. They noticed the pitches and indeed noticed some impact! mini's too (just ask Treno). They approached me after game one and I pleaded they used some common sense.

Having convinced of them that they (the spanish pitches) were for the world cup (which they were I think) they made an announcement to say if the oppo was happy, then ok, regarding the pitches. Re figs, some quick switching was done.

That's all it was. They were all up for "no, you cant have that" but I tried a bit of "oh, c'mon, they have come a long way, give 'em break yeah" and to be fair they saw a bit of reason.

A classic case of TBB'ers cant have it both ways. you cant in one thread slag GW off for being to strict and in another say they are too soft. There has to be middle ground and for once, fair play to them, they found it.


Wasn't asking for it both ways at all. Your information puts it in perspective ... all is good with the world now ... thanks!

Tom

_________________
Impact! - Fantasy Football miniatures and supplies designed by gamers for gamers
Image


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 12:13 am 
Da Ex-Boss

Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2003 11:27 am
Posts: 1452
Location: Reading, UK
Thats cool. Good

And my comment about having it both ways was not in any way directed at you, apologies if it came across that way. Sorry. I should have worded that better.

It was at those there who love to give GW a hard time and slag them off but actually probably didnt know about all the little things that this year they did better. Like so much in this life.... there are two sides to these things.

_________________
TFF mod team


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 12:22 am 
Godfather of Blood Bowl
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2001 1:00 am
Posts: 15856
Location: Indiana, USA
Lycos wrote:
there are two sides to these things.
Agreed.

I should also note that while I know the World Cup allowed all figures ... I personally don't have a problem with GW insisting that all figs for the GT be GW.

Impact! won't do this for our official tournaments ... but I don't begrudge GW the right to do this at all.

And I'm glad for those that accidently brought our figures that GW allowed them to replace them with GW ones and play in the event.

Galak

_________________
Impact! - Fantasy Football miniatures and supplies designed by gamers for gamers
Image


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 1:40 pm 
Super Star
Super Star
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 4:48 pm
Posts: 1074
DDogwood wrote:
SillySod wrote:
In a semi related note what on earth were you thinking when you created Blackrock Clan Dwarfs? They are evil dwarfs served by hobimp (read hobgoblins?) slaves and also bullcentaurs.... as far as I know GW IP is the only place where this concept appears.


GW didn't invent evil dwarfs, goblinoid creatures who serve evil overlords, or chimeras. Unless someone started copying the 'big hat' appearance of GW's chaos dwarfs, I think that GW would have a very hard time winning this case.

Even banning the sale of Blood Bowl pitches seems pretty questionable to me, although I'm no expert on IP law. Unless they've patented the board layout, I think they can only hold copyright on the artwork. Maybe Impact! could sell them as rugby playboards or something.
Remember Chaos League? GW took them down for IP infringement largely on the strength of the pitch layout. So it is quite clear that impact couldn't get away with just saying that the pitches are for a different game.

Also, with regard to the evil Dwarfs/Hobimps thing, context and source are important here. GW got away with their Tyrannids being very similar to HR Geiger's Aliens when he sued them as they could show they were different in some aspects and, most importantly, that they evolved to their current form from an entirely different source. So whilst these elements may be in existence elsewhere it may well be no defence if they're not in the same combination and/or in the context of a football (or at least sports) game.

_________________
Mordredd's Apocalypse: the Old World's premier Dwarf Magnet. :-?


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 3:22 pm 
Experienced
Experienced

Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2005 1:55 pm
Posts: 126
Location: ecbbl
in africa there is a saying: "when two bull elephants fight, it is the ants who lose out." glad to see lycos and galak have settled things, once the cause for dispute had been cleared up. shame the gw - bb community is still having to fight it out (to some extent), especially when we have so much fan based support, etc. (bbfigs, bbrc, impact!, naf).
@mordredd: i didn't know giger had sued over tyranids, personally i don't know how anyone could have ruled in their favour: the rip-off is clear! oh well, i guess it probably doesn't matter to a legal personage, in the way it does to the geeks who care. thanks for that nugget of info.
sorry to take things off topic.
cws / jammer


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 8:59 pm 
Godfather of Blood Bowl
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2001 1:00 am
Posts: 15856
Location: Indiana, USA
clockwork steve wrote:
@mordredd: i didn't know giger had sued over tyranids, personally i don't know how anyone could have ruled in their favour: the rip-off is clear! oh well, i guess it probably doesn't matter to a legal personage, in the way it does to the geeks who care. thanks for that nugget of info.


Let me give you a flip side that GW didn't win.

Sculptor of Squig Hoppers for GW leaves GW. SAME sculptor sculpts new clearly obvious Squig Hoppers for Foundry Miniatures but calls then Orclings on Bouncy Balls and says he has no idea what GW is talking about. GW fails to stop the sale of the figures.

The problem is that short of proving recasting of some or all of a miniature ... it is REALLY difficult to successfully sue for stolen concepts.

Just wanted to throw this in.

As for Chaos League losing over the pitch design ... yes that was one of the items that GW used for that law suit ... but man there was sooooooooo much else. Icons that were pratically duplicate. Mentions of Blood Bowl directly on their website and forums. The bullseye they put on themselves was huge.

Galak

_________________
Impact! - Fantasy Football miniatures and supplies designed by gamers for gamers
Image


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 7:17 pm 
Super Star
Super Star
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 4:48 pm
Posts: 1074
And just to add a little more detail on the 'nids thing.

Ever seen the original Rogue Trader ones? They looked very much like Jurassic Park style Velociraptors rather than the more eyeless insectoid/distorted human looking Geiger Alien. With 2 extra limbs. And bio-guns.

Whats more, theres a whole lot of concept art that starts from that original look and, with time, evolves into what we have today.

That Geiger's art influenced GW's along the way is indisputable, but GW do have a solid case to back up their claims not to have simply copied his work (and being influenced by another's art is not theft). In fact there are many people who see Starship Troopers as a much more believable single source (if there is one).

Just goes to show that this issue is a lot more complex than most people like to accept.

Oh, and I remember talking to someone in GW about this at the time (JJ, Andy, can't quite recall who) and the story they spun was that there were indeed many things that contributed to the victory; but that the pitch layout was the killer blow that sealed the deal for them due to it being unique to BB.

_________________
Mordredd's Apocalypse: the Old World's premier Dwarf Magnet. :-?


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 10:00 pm 
Experienced
Experienced
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2006 4:56 pm
Posts: 116
Couldn't that all be cleared up by the addition of another row of squares beyond the endzone?

Lord knows it would be nice to have a tad more breathing room on the ends of the boards....

_________________
ImageBloodbowl for your ears!


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 11:04 pm 
Da Spammer
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 12, 2002 10:04 pm
Posts: 23711
Location: Fundamentaling for the BB Illuminati
nyarlathotep wrote:
Couldn't that all be cleared up by the addition of another row of squares beyond the endzone?


Then that's treading on GW's IP for 2nd edition boards.

_________________
SWTC 2017 Stunty Cup winner - never again (until next time!)

Khorne and Bretonnian? Sorry, those don't exist - bring a real roster.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 12:15 am 
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2006 9:12 pm
Posts: 214
Mordredd wrote:
Oh, and I remember talking to someone in GW about this at the time (JJ, Andy, can't quite recall who) and the story they spun was that there were indeed many things that contributed to the victory; but that the pitch layout was the killer blow that sealed the deal for them due to it being unique to BB.


I don't know if anyone, even the folks at Cyanide or GW, can actually say whether the board layout was the 'killer blow', since the lawsuit was settled out of court. The fact that Cyanide walked away with the rights to produce a Blood Bowl video game implies that the case was far from cut-and-dried, and that both parties realized that there wasn't much benefit in a drawn-out court case.

If GW had an impregnable case, there wouldn't be much incentive for them to settle at all, let alone give the defendant the right to develop the game.


Top 
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
 
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 63 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

Board index » Community Discussion » Tournament Postings » The NAF Championship


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users

 
 

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to: