A better scoring system?

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grotemuis
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Post by grotemuis »

longshot, i think the main problem is that people think this system will produce an unfair winner. I puts to much emphasis on the extra TD win, a lot of players have pointed out that they are going to play another team than they were originally going to take based on this scoring. Isn't this a problem?

Of course the main problem is the scoring outside actual gameplay, but that doesn't make the other problem a lesser one

one of the biggest problems I have with the system as of now, is that absolutely no thought has gone into it. It's a literal copy of the 40 K rules!
massacre=20=3points difference
etc.....

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Post by Longshot »

well i will not criticise to much the point system cos there are some other tournament wich i dont like how it is working so.
And in some tourny, some other could think that it is unfair.

as far as i immagine that...
200 players...no problem imo will realy occur?
the top ten will be guys will only victorys..

As i said, i dont like their scoring systeme but i will not propose anything else about it, i would find that a nonsense...or may be rude if somebody would like to change my scoring systeme for the rdv bb if there is not good reason to do it...

the Example of Ian is theorical...i dont think it will happen cos of 200 players !

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Post by Geggster »

Here here to what Longshot says.

The rules have been announced, almost certainly printed up and will go out with tickets in the very near future. The chance of it being changed now is surely very low. I don't like this set very much but there is little that will change.

But is it really that bad?

A lot of this negative talk is based on the surrounding points (quiz :roll: , painting etc) and the rest on the differentation between large and small victories (possibly weighting towards AG teams).

I'm assuming there will two trophies up for grabs like last year. One was for games only, thus cancelling out the surrounding stuff (and let's face it, those that were there, were playing for the Bloodbowl). Out of 180 people, only 3 won their first five games and the top two played for the Bloodbowl (hard luck to Lucy). Tarra won the final and was crowned champ with the only 100% record.

So assuming another grand final between the best scoring teams (on the pitch) over the first five games, this system should be okay. With 200 competitors, four to six players will win their first five games. Realistically, none of those will have won all their games by one solitary score - and have an incentive to press home any numerical advantage they achieve over the weekend. The best teams with five victories should still place above any that win big 3/4 times but lose the other (how many of those will there actually be once big winners start playing each other? Not many).

You could rank five-time winners by TDs, but I think everyone agrees that TD difference is better and this actually achieves that. I foresee that the final will be between two players with 100% records and the heaviest wins - as is right. The winner will be the Bloodbowl champ.

The other trophy (if emulating last year) includes all the other stuff and points from the sixth game. Firstly, who won it last year? I'm not saying it's not worth winning but it's not why you are going. Big wins (especially over six games) will help you go up the final table and IMO, the way your team looks and sportmanship should be a factor too.

If people are encouraged to bring a painted team with correct and numbered miniatures, that are all based and correctly recorded on the teamsheet, then urged to play sportingly then that is a good thing in my book. Who here is fed up with “the wardancer with the raised fist has strip ball” or “the beastman with a cheeky grin is really a zombie”? All those that make this effort to make the game enjoyable for their opponent will not be disadvantaged and should mean that it becomes standard. Who is going to argue with that?

Star players are effectively eliminated (which I think we are all pleased about) and will only help with everyone's real NAF rankings.

Ultimately, if you are going to try and win the Bloodbowl, I don't think this system makes it any more difficult and if you are going for a bit of fun and to tie up with your Bloodbowl mates from Tourneys-past, then this change will only alter your final position from 55th to 73rd (or 22nd for that matter). I'm sure someone will post here afterwards comparing who would have won given different scoring situations anyway.

Again, I don’t really like these rules but don’t think it will be as controversial as everyone is saying – just as long as they see sense and kick out the quiz (or read it out in everyone’s national language).

NB. I plan to take Skaven to defend my "Most Touchdowns Trophy" from last year so you could quite rightly call me AG biased.

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Al the Trowel
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Post by Al the Trowel »

Hmm you might be "well painted team" biased to Paul - any chance I can borrow some minis? :-?

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Post by Indigo »

Your point is based on the number of wins, but last year all wins were worth equal points. This year they're not, so if Tarra won all his matches this year with his humans it's still more likely that two welf/skaven teams will be in the final by virtue of winning by more, and thus getting more points for it.

I'm personally willing to give the system a try and it seems like a lot of people are arguing about what could happen in thoery. I think that on the day, in practice, we won't care much because we'll all be having a great time anyway. Only one person can win it but everyone will have a laugh.

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Post by Tim »

Longshot, Geggster,

I see your point, but i disagree regarding the scoring system for the Blood Bowl specifically.

a, The main goal of a scoring system should make the games more interesting. So every incentive a player can play to is good, may it be getting more TDs, more CAS, keeping it close, etc. If the game reaches a point where one or both players lose a goal to play for it gets boring, see massive stalling when 1-0 up in last years final.

b, A scoring system that is not balanced to all races may be acceptable, but it will result in the coaches adjusting their race choice, resulting in an overhang of bashy or scory (?) teams. That's OK for most tournaments and adding a certain theme to the competition will keep the tournament circle interesting.

c, the Blood Bowl is not any tournament, it is THE tournament. In my opinion, the chances of races winning it should as balanced as possible (not counting Halfings and Gobbos), thus for this tournament, the tournament scoring should be as "balanced" as possible.

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Post by Geggster »

I'm not so sure Indi.

To be good enough to win five games, you will in all probability be good enough to win at least a couple of games by at least two TDs.

Five victories, one by three, one by two, three by one, would provide 76 points. And that's an average. If six people win their first five games (as did last year and there should be more competitors this year), then you can imagine that you would need 80+ to get into the final two for the sixth round.

Four victories by three TDs and a lnarrow loss or draw would beat it but how likely is that when you are paired with other teams of similar ability (under Swiss). Mark Brereton and myself scored, by some way, the most TDs last year (with Woodies and Skaven respectively) and would have scored 63 and 73 points under this system. That won't be enough for a final.

One other thing, a quick look at last year's results (between NAF coaches only) shows that 3 or more TD victories accounted for 28% of the first round results (oppo drawned randomly) but only 13% of games thereafter. Who is going to be able to win four games by three TDs?

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Post by Longshot »

Well Tim, i see your point but...
in that case i would prefer a tr 110 !

look at my stats with We tr 100/ 110 to understand that !

ag team prefered for BB ? doubt so, tr 100 is difficult!
team like CD , Skavens, Orc, Humans can do well in that kind of tourny.

And honeslty, as you go in top tables, it is harder to have a +3 td net each game. (not talking about Mannheim :p )

But the main fact is that we dont have the power on it...so what ?

we all pay for the tiket before knowing about the rules...is it for winning? , erf no ! just to be there i suppose !

And in a way, even if i dont like their system, i could understand if they say that a deserved winner need to paint well, play well, be a kind guy, know about Background and do one for the history of his team...
For the glourious of the BB.

Not saying that i like but i can understand....

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Post by Indigo »

Geggster wrote:Who is going to be able to win four games by three TDs?
I can see the point. That's why I was saying that although flawed in theory I can't see it being an issue on the day.

Although tempted to take welfs initially I'm going with my humans again regardless of the scoring system. Unless the entireity of TBB decides to take flings or gobbos though ;)

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Post by shaniepoo »

I dont think that painting and definatly not the quiz should be used in the ranking list.

You can be a great BB player but be crap at painting and crap at the history/fluff of BB. There are a total of 20pts up for grabs in these 2 catagories, the same as a 2+td win. This could be a big factor in the final games.

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Post by Thadrin »

I'll play whatever they tell us to play.

I just wanted to come up with a system that reflected all the fears and complaints people raised on reading the rules.

Geggster has a point on the "unbeaten" point. There is POTENTIAL for a player with an inferior record to beat an unbeaten player (and it has happened before).

We'll see. Lets just go along to WW, play some BB, sing along to "...Alice" and have a few ales. SOunds like a good time to me whatever the result.

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Post by Geggster »

Thadrin wrote:Lets just go along to WW, play some BB, sing along to "...Alice" and have a few ales. SOunds like a good time to me whatever the result.
Amen to that.

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Post by l_dauguet »

What's Alice ? I think we should sing the Marseillaise :wink: or maybe Debut de soirée with Geggster 8)

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Post by Geggster »

l_dauguet wrote:or maybe Debut de soirée with Geggster 8)
:o

I can only hope that I am the other end of the hall from you, Louis.

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Post by l_dauguet »

When you think you have friends :(

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