A better scoring system?

[Thadrin]

Seeing as everybody hates the one HR has previewed, I've been thinking about a fair and balanced scoring system...hows this sound?

total available points: 150.
Six games @ 20 points each.
win by 2 or more TDs = 20
Win by 1 = 15
tie = 10
Loss by 1 = 5
Loss by 2 or more = 0
(modified version of the current system. Less harsh on low scoring teams.)

Painting @ 10 points
base requirement: 3 colours. no bare metal.
4 points basic detailing on figures. Clear colour cheme.
8 points detailed, numbered, based figures with a cohesive colour scheme. Figures individual in some way (hair colour, minor conversions etc.)
10 points A team with special effort put in - heavily converted, custom reroll counters, exceptional painwork etc.

(most people should get at least 8 points of that).

Sportsmanship@10 points
Quiz @ 10 points.

(your guess is as good as mine. GW seems to want these in there. Nearly everyone will get ten for sportsmanship.)

[Slinky78]

Game scoring I'm flexible on as the variables are quite huge, and as long as it's not grossly unfair I think most people can live with it.
The 32 point system used at britcon 16pts on scores, 8pts on cas (and I think maybe wps use it as well) seemed fair.

I don't really agree with your painting proposal, as the criteria have to be very clear. Also while a wonderfully converted and painted team is nice, I don't personally like it influencing tournament scores. That's probably a personal thing, I just want to play bloodbowl - pretty teams are secondary I think. Last year's scoring for that was fine, because it just required a reasonable effort, and the great efforts got their recognition in other ways.

Sportsmanship - anything has to be better than last year surely?
Quiz? What's wrong with just doing it in the bar like last time? How can they quiz us on bloodbowl fluff when they can't even get a grip on it themselves. "We're moving away from the warhammer world... here are our cyberpunk elves... here are our khemri and vampire teams to match the wfb armies..." wtf? If it's not the fluff it must be the rules, but if you don't know the rules you have a serious issue playing at the Bloodbowl. Drop the quiz, it's a rubbish idea. Lining up 10 pints and getting a point for each one you can drink inside 2 hours would be a far more sensible option.

[Grumbledook]

you made it worse

you increased the points diff by winning by 1td to 2td from 4 points up to 5

that only benefits the teams that score by 2 better as i can't really see many teams winning by 3

to be honest with it I don't see why everyone has been moaning about the fact an elf team that wins all their games by 3 should be placed higher than a human team that won by 2

people have been saying that blood bowl is balanced (of course the races change position over tr) surely winning by 3 is better than winning by 2 how is that unfair

now i am not desputing the fact that its biased towards the teams who score more cause well its obvious it is

now giving bonus points for cas diff as well maybe just 1 or 2 might help the situation but of course that will give the problem of more teams being on the same points so how to you differentiate for the draws the next round

personally i think they should just be random and we won't have all this trouble

[Slinky78]

Random draws don't help - suppose the best ten players don't face each other. They're all going to be winning, you're going to end up with at least a couple on the same points. You end up with more tiebreaker situations than swiss, and at a more crucial phase of proceedings.

[Grumbledook]

um i meant randomise between the players on the same points not random every round

thats why i think the spikey system was best

10 win 5 draw 0 for loss
+3 for each cas max 3
+3 for each td max 3

it doesn't favour any playstyle over another and ensures a wider mixture of games per round rather than filtering out ag agianst ag etc

[Dave]

mail that system to fanactic ..

[Thadrin]

you made it worse

you increased the points diff by winning by 1td to 2td from 4 points up to 5

that only benefits the teams that score by 2 better as i can't really see many teams winning by 3

Seemed to be the major sticking point for people - the third bracket. 2-0 is a good win, and managable for slower teams.

I was thinking for the painting that anything that got full marks last year would get 8 - and that was MOST people. The extra two are for people who've put in a little more effort - a scenic base, a cool and unusual theme, sideline staff, whatever.

In the end I want the winner to be one of the small number of people who wins all 6 games. Period.

My idea is probably flawed, but thinking it up was better than working.

[Tim]

Here's the effect of your scoring system "Thads", compared to pure W-T-L (2-1-0 points), BB03 and proposed BB04 system (again based on the analysis of 2000+ NAF tournament games):

Code: Select all

Rank per Race        WTL  BB03  BB04  Thads
Amazons                8     7     8     8
Chaos                 13    13    13    13
Chaos Dwarves          1     1     1     1
Dark Elves            11     8    11    12
Dwarves                7     9    10     9
Goblins               14    14    14    14
Halflings             15    15    15    15
High Elves            12    12     6    11
Humans                10    11     7     6
Lizardmen              3     3     4     3
Norse                  6     6     9     7
Orc                    9    10    12    10
Skaven                 5     4     3     4
Undead                 2     2     2     2
Wood Elves             4     5     5     5

The slow teams (Orcs and Dwarfs) suffer a bit less, The Highelfs drop back into position (they seem to be a race with a unproporational number of 3+ TD diff victories). Interestingly, the Humans get the biggest boost from the big difference between winning by 1 TD or 2 TD (unproporational number of 2+ TD diff victories or unproporational number of 1 TD diff losses).

[Sputnik]

could someone please explain to me these numbers?

Amazons 8...8....8....8 what exactly does "8" mean in this case? Except that for Amazons the socring system don't seem to matter, because you will end up with 8?

Sorry, still tired!

Sputnik, the math freak

[Furelli]

They look like rankings. 8th top race. Chaos Dwarves are the top ranked race no matter the system, Amazons are 8th. Its interesting that Dark Elves fall 3 places from 2003 to 2004, must be the lack of taking into account casualties.

Furelli

[Tim]

Yep those are ranks per race in different tournament scoring methods, compare this thread for a longer way to this result.

The differences occur due to a different weighting of wins, ties and losses and due to differences in usinbg TD diff scoring. Unfortunately, i can't take casulties scoring into account, as the NAF data does not have this for most tournaments. But these 4 scoring methods listed here did not award bonus for casulties.

[Longshot]

Guys !!!

what do you wand to do ?
each tourny does have his special tourny points calculation..
well ok, some are not 'perfect' cos nothing is perfect.
And we could ague on a lot of tourny about that and about special rules for skills.

Now, this system is one like another.

the only thing that annoy me is putting quizz, painting, theme..with the field results.
For me they are separate contest.

[Furelli]

There is, as Longshot has pointed out, way to much emphasis on the non-playing sections of the scoring at this years Blood Bowl.

I don't think that anyone will argue with this.

But there is also a bias in the scoring for the playing section towards the agility teams. Blood Bowl teams are not balanced such that all teams can get a 3 TD win. But the non-agaility teams can win, usually through a lot a bashing and a 1 TD victory. As someone - may have been IanWilliams - has pointed out with this scoring 6 1TD wins isn't as good as 4 3TD wins.


The whole scoring needs re-looked at. Ditch the Quiz. Downgrade the painting points and put more emphasis on the Playing, which is what we are all there to do.

Furelli.

Oh and give points for inflicting casualties.

[Reventlov]

What do you think of the following?
1.100.000gps teams and one skill per game and hopefully 6 rounds of swiss.

Matchpoints 0-10p

Win with >1TD 8p
Win with 1TD 6p
Draw 4p
Loss with 1TD 3p
Loss with >1TD 1p
Give up 0p

Most Cas. (if Cas.>2) 2p
Tie Cas. (if Cas.>2) 1p
Most Cas. (if Cas.<3) 1p
Tie Cas. (if Cas.<3) 0p
Least Cas. 0p

Extra points 0-10p
awarded once before tournament

Painting: 0-4p
Any figure unpainted or just under coated 0p
All figures painted in atleast 3 colours, but without details 2p
Well painted with some details 3p
Extremely well painted with lots of details 4p

Bases: 0-2p
Not painted 0p
Painted bases 1p
Painted and with "static grass" 2p

Special: 0-4p
All players have correct numbers 1p
To play Hallflings or Goblins 1p
All additional Staff painted and correct represented 1p
At least 3 converted players with very good painting and details 1p
Own Stadium or bench 1p
Converted Re-Rolls or Turn-markers 1p
Something extra that's not covered in the above 1p

Tie-breakers
1. Points
2. Median-Buchholz
(Sum of your opponents points leaving out the ones with highest and lowest points)
3. +/- i TD
4. Most TD
5. Who won the game between the two teams
6. Roll a dice

Sportsmanship
I haven't found a system yet that works without a lot of administration. In a tournament you play to win not to be nice.

[Longshot]

Thx Forelli,

please guys, stop giving example of what a scoring systeme can be !

or do it for your own tourny !
i will not give the one i use for RDV BB here. this is not the good problem or not the good title !