Balrog's Guide to Chaos

BobbyDavro · Post by **BobbyDavro** » Tue Nov 12, 2002 3:00 pm

I don't think that the Beastmen are a waste of money in the long term, just for the first couple of crucial games.

You mention the scrimmage line - and having 3 or 4 players with a strength of 4 naturally *as well as* an extra blitzer with a str 4 creates a nightmare for most teams. It makes your front line almost impossible to budge, since it is extremely difficult for a str 3 team to get any kind of bonuses to block.

Having tried it in a practice game, I found that having the ogre and 1 CW in the scrimmage line with a CW playing wide on each side gave the opposition (human) team a nightmare of a time trying to break through.

I think that the real strengthof the Chaos team is the warriors - with a STR4 it makes a huge difference.

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Tue Nov 12, 2002 3:09 pm

ive wrecked starting choas teams with choas warriors with undead, they had the one reroll and pretty much couldn't do a lot, hide the ball carrier behind the mummies and he is fairly untouchable. Starting with less rerolls is a trade off for longer term benefits, if you feel you can deal with that go ahead, but str4 doesn't win games touchdowns do and rerolls help you move the ball as you don't have the skills to do so. Of course if you can wreck the other team then you just have to run it in but its not a surefire tactic by any means.

At the end of the day both lineups have advantages and disadvantages, if you can play to their strengths properly and the dice are with you both will work.

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Tue Nov 12, 2002 3:24 pm

BobbyDavro wrote:Having tried it in a practice game, I found that having the ogre and 1 CW in the scrimmage line with a CW playing wide on each side gave the opposition (human) team a nightmare of a time trying to break through.

This was with rookie teams? I'm not surprised that you caused him problems as they ill equipped to deal with this sort of team from the go. Did you try it against an Orc team too?

However later on teams tend to have got either their own big guys or guards/dauntless players making this defence a lot more vulnerable.

Balrog · Post by **Balrog** » Tue Nov 12, 2002 3:56 pm

BobbyDavro wrote: I am about to start playing in a league with my first Chaos team. I thought that playing in the spirit of Chaos, I would pick the following team:

1 Ogre
3 Chaos Warriors
7 Beastmen
9 FF
1 RR

This gives a massively front-loaded powerful team - about as good as it gets - while setting the team up well for getting some cash to buy more RR and an apothecary.

It is a risky strategy of course, but isn't that the fun of Chaos?

The problem is you won't have much fun with this lineup, because you won't be able to do anything with the ball, and therefore you won't win many matches. By not winning games you will have less SPPs and you will have negative modifiers to your FF roll. Your FF will go down, as will your ability to buy those rerolls you need.

You'll probably do fairly well in your first 2-3 games, but after that all your opponents will have more skills then you, and then your big strength will make a lot less of a difference. It is after seeing 3 different front loading Chaos teams go down in flames that our league came up with the 11 Beastmen roster, and so far it's been the most successful Chaos team I've ever seen.

Buying Beastmen is never a waste because you'll need them anyways (a full roster will be 11 Beastmen, 4 Chaos Warriors, and 1 Big Guy). And Beastmen are much better then they appear.

With your line-up I have a few suggestions:

Your first doubles skill roll should be the Leader trait, you will need it.

Try not to rely on the Ogre for blocking (especially blitzing), with Bonehead and no RR it'll burn you often. Instead use him as a pillar in the middle of the field. Whenever possible, don't even activate him, saving you a bonehead roll and leaving him as a great source of Tackle zones.

Always give the ball to a Chaos Warrior who has no skills. Then keep moving him until he scores; do not pass, do not hand off, with no RR you will just drop the ball and lose it. Once a Chaos Warrior gets a skill he stops being a ball handler and starts being a blocker.

Lastly, your first few skills should be a combination of Block and Guard. Try to play defensive, force your opponent to make 1 die blocks against you whenever possible.

In any case, good luck!

-Balrog

BobbyDavro · Post by **BobbyDavro** » Tue Nov 12, 2002 4:15 pm

Hmm, I think that I am going to have to bow to your experience on this.

Do you still think that this is the ideal starting line up for a league?

10 Beastmen
1 Chaos Warrior
3 Rerolls
9 Fan Factor

If so, what are your purchases, in order, assuming that no one dies....? Thanks for your help on this.

Also, is the number of CW that you would purchase proportional to the number of games that the team is expected to play? For example, in a 6 game league, would you have more CW than in a 20 game league?

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Tue Nov 12, 2002 4:22 pm

Yer thats a lot better for long term, start by getting another couple of choas warriors and choose skills to make them blockers, the beastmen vary the skills out you will need one with sure hands (or big hand if you get a double) blitzer guys will need block, then get them tackle and strip ball. On doubles for others you could make a catcher or a thrower with catch and pass, dodge is also useful and check out mutations as well. Don't rely on a passing play though running is the way to go with choas. Warriors benefit from block tackle mighty blow guard claw and such skills, block then guard is usually a good tactic though mighty blow will bring cas in quicker thus more spp to get the next skill and as your allreaday a strong team guard isn't quite so important as it is to say a dwarf team. Finally if you get a run of good games with no deaths and good income then get another reroll ;]

Balrog · Post by **Balrog** » Tue Nov 12, 2002 4:50 pm

BobbyDavro wrote:Hmm, I think that I am going to have to bow to your experience on this.

Do you still think that this is the ideal starting line up for a league?

10 Beastmen
1 Chaos Warrior
3 Rerolls
9 Fan Factor

If so, what are your purchases, in order, assuming that no one dies....? Thanks for your help on this.

Also, is the number of CW that you would purchase proportional to the number of games that the team is expected to play? For example, in a 6 game league, would you have more CW than in a 20 game league?

I've just added a purchasing strategy to the original post. But it's more for the 11 beastmen variant, so let's address your roster here.

The first thing you should buy with this team is an apothecary. That shouldn't be a problem after your first game. The only exception is if you lost a player, then maybe buying another Beastman would be better. Because all your players are expensive you'll only be getting an additional player every 2nd game (on average), so keep that in mind when making purchasing decisions. Let's assume no one dies...

Game - Purchase
1 - Apothecary
2 - Beastman
3 - Nothing
4 - Chaos Warrior
5 - Nothing
6 - Chaos Warrior
7 - Nothing
8 - Nothing
9 - Ogre

Notice that I suggest getting another Beastman before a second Chaos Warrior. This is because having 12 guys to field can make a huge difference against other strength teams. It allows you to pass using the apothecary on a BH or SI and just play the reserve man instead.

The key to winning with Chaos early on is to play conservatively. Go for the 2-1 win, and play it safe, no passing, no GFI. Of course this will rarely happen, but that's why you have rerolls. Basically don't try any risky plays hoping that a reroll will get you out of it. Instead use your rerolls to help a solid game plan, it always works better that way.

Lastly, accept failure, especially on defense. Don't waste your rerolls on something that won't change the outcome of the game. If your opponent will score anyways then don't reroll your failed blitz, just take the turnover and you'll have that reroll later on, when it really matters.

Hope this helps!

-Balrog

Severoth · Post by **Severoth** » Thu Nov 28, 2002 9:53 am

Im actually coaching an a team of chaos now in a the World of Pain league.

Going with a themed team of

10 Beastmen
1 Minotaur
3 Rerolls
8 Fanfactor

Will report back on the progress of how I go and what not for other inspiring coaches, as this is a great thread for Chaos supporters.

I did have a one of match against a gobbo team today to warm them up and had a nice 2-0 victory. Chose to kick and instead of letting the score straight away ground them down slowly, until on the eight turn of the first half I missed scoring..stupid GFI roll.

The casualties built up for the gobbos in the second half and I scored early on the fourth turn. A failed team mate throw let me again apply the pressure and I scored on the eighth turn of the second half. I had my whole team on for the final two turns and he was down to six players. Bam field invasion. Chaos fans nailed two of his last gobbos, and I was left wishing that I had one more turn to handle the final mop up, but the match was over and it was dinner time (those injured gobbos better look out hehe)

Was a fun match, and the minotaur proved fairly effective, though the solid beastmen lineup was very successful. Missed not having block but them the breaks. Inflicted 3 SI's and one of my beastmen got a TD and MVP for the match. Would have been a great first game for a league, pity it was just a test match

The minotaur surpringly didnt get any SPs at all having some bad luck on injury rolls and being a target for the big guys of the other team. This however let the beastmen wrack up some good SPs all round, and five beastmen had SPs at the end of the match.

The Black Horns are officially blooded and ready for the League.

BobbyDavro · Post by **BobbyDavro** » Thu Dec 05, 2002 3:37 pm

Well, I eventually went into the league using:

1 Ogre
10 beastmen
3 Re-rolls

This leaves me 4 player slots for my Chaos warriors, and a substitute right from the start.

My first game was against a skaven team and I totally wiped them from the field. There is a game write-up here, if anyone is interested:
http://www.eibon.co.uk/bb/week1.html

By the end of the match, the skaven team was fielding just the minimum 3 players, and my substitute never actually made it on to the pitch. My Ogre, on the other hand, gained 6 SPPs, and my Fan Factor went up

However, I think that I was lucky that I was playing against such a fragile team. Had this been against the Orc team with 4 blockers and a troll, I would have felt some pain.

Next game is against an under-strength Delf team, and I hope to repeat the performance.

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Thu Dec 05, 2002 3:43 pm

Erm what fan factor did you have?

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Thu Dec 05, 2002 3:49 pm

And what sub? Did you have 11 beastmen. In that case the FF is 1, otherwise its 7.

Evil Git · Post by **Evil Git** » Thu Dec 05, 2002 3:56 pm

looks like he had a fan factor of 7

BobbyDavro · Post by **BobbyDavro** » Fri Dec 06, 2002 12:25 am

We actually have a rather different set of league rules that we have compiled ourselves, to make it more like a football (soccer) league.
http://www.eibon.co.uk/bb/league-rules.html

Thus everyone started with the same amount of FF for free, and we have a wages system in place.

I did of course mean 11 beastmen...I was too busy reading the post above mine.

Korhil · Post by **Korhil** » Fri Dec 06, 2002 5:31 am

The biggest problem with alot of Choas teams is people getting the wrong skills, Chaos are like Orcs, both teams are playing catch up so they look like Dwarfs but with better stats.

Beastmen:
Normal: Block, Tackle, Guard
Dbls: Foul Appearance

Block out performs anything else as the first skills, starting with 4 RR's doesn't make up for not having Block in a hitty team. Tackle negates Dodge so you can get the ball off Catcher Types, and in doing so it leads to getting more CAS since Dodge types are often AV7. Guard is the most Broken skill in all of Blood Bowl... get it, get lots of it.
Which leaves Foul Appearance, This provides protection for the person with it, and disrupts others games. You need lots of them to make it work so you have to use every Dbl roll with Beastmen getting it.

Chaos Warriors:
Normal: Block, Guard, Tackle
Dbls: Claw, RSC

Normal skills for the same reasons as the Beastmen, tho you will likely want Guard before Tackle since these guys arent your Blitzers and are holding up your LOS or Cage.
On Dbls, nothing out performs Claw first up. RSC is just cake. You could easily enough give the Chaos Warriors Foul Appearance as well just to have more of them on the field.

---Korhil

http://fumbbl.no-ip.org/league/teams/KhaosKrusherZ.html
(most of the good players have aged now tho)

BobbyDavro · Post by **BobbyDavro** » Thu Dec 12, 2002 5:12 am

Just a quick update on my second game of our league versus a dark elf team.

Unfortuntately the coach had managed to scrape enough cash together to buy two more linemen to give him a full 11 man line up.
There is a full write up of the match here:
http://www.eibon.co.uk/bb/week2.html

However, to summarise, I had a bit of a nightmare despite winning the game. The lack of any real muscle in my team meant that I was actually being knocked around the pitch by a bunch of delfs. This is what I had worried about with the lack of Chaos Warriors. Even my ogre was being teamed up on, which did prove to be a useful player magnet, but also meant that he ended up KO'd.

Part of the problem is that the delf linemen are just like mine, except that they all have AG 4, so they can dodge, handle, throw, catch etc. much better and can still hold their own in a fight.

We actually ended up with a weird reversal of roles - he was beating up my team while I was attempting all of the ball play, since I was never going to get the upper hand in a punch up.

I do think that a Chaos team without those warriors is a fairly weak team, and I am glad that I now have enough cash to buy two into the team (we have more money floating around in our league than normal).

On the plus side, I did manage some lovely running play and my ogre managed to kill a delf, his second murder in two games

Anyway, looking forward to the next match, I am expecting that I will get three players to enough SPPs for a skill/trait and I would like people's thoughts on what to get. Assuming that I get 1 trait and 2 skills, I like the look of tentacles to make myself a natural defender to catch those pesky runners, and 2 with block.

Is that a wasted choice of trait? It means that I can move a defender next to the runner with a 50% of stopping them getting anywhere. Could be invaluable at stopping fast teams scoring, perhaps?

Korhil suggested Foul Appearance, but I want to start forming some specialist positions for the players. FA looks a bit girly really, although I suppose it is good for use against passing teams. However, none of the teams in our league ever seem to try throwing the ball because it goes wrong far too often.

Obviously the first choice for any skills will be block.