Brucebowl - The Draft - 22nd April 2023 - Portsmouth

[lgmdaniel]

the NAF listed event has a different thing
Screenshot 2023-02-26 120739.png

I've updated the NAF page, I thought that Alex had updated it, but since re-reading the email and seeing all this realised its different. As much as it might seem I was trying to make a loop hole, its was just a mistake. Today is the first day I've been on TFF since the weekend as I couldn't bring myself to face the conversation till now.

[Itchen Masack]

Being forced to expose yourself at blood bowl events is not ok.
Playing against lecherous drunken men at a tourney is also not ok.

But here's the thing, neither of those things are on offer. Instead of leaving insulting remarks based on knee-jerk assumptions, please take a minute to consider the damage YOU are doing.

Personally I would not attend an event if I had to play topless, having body image issues as I'm sure many in our community do, and the fact that a group of my peers has the confidence to play that way should be applauded, not condemned.

I dont know all of the Brucebowl coaches, but the ones I do are fine people, every single one. Any arsehole I've ever encountered at a Blood Bowl tourney has been fully clothed.

There are no laws against being topless in the UK and anyone finding it offensive? Well I truly feel sorry for you.
A trip to the beach.
A walk in the park.
The swimming pool.
Any public street in summer.
Television.
The Internet.
Wardancers.

These things and so many more must be absolute hell for you.

[Purplegoo]

It's all about context, no? It's not a trip to the local pool or catching up with the latest HBO drama, it's moving bits of plastic about for a day.

You are perhaps responding to somewhat incendiary language in kind, as much as anything? And if so, I think you have a point that the thread is perhaps a bit pointier than it needs to be. Probably not in the top 100 TFF rucks at this stage, mind.

[lgmdaniel]

There has been numerous discussion about this, and at the weekend we had some more discussion and got enlightened to some context of other things that had happened that we didn't even know about. The rules pack and the NAF page have been updated.
As expected, you might find that some people will be having drinks, and might be getting into the theme of 'Brucebowl'. I won't be drinking myself, mostly so I can be sure that there are no mistakes with the scores, but with my high blood pressure its got some nasty side effects.
You are not required to remove any items of clothing to get your Brucebowl re-roll, but as we are in the sunny south coast you might see shorts, vests, socks and sandals (I do hope not). And of course a topless person scowling at tiny figures on a pitch of green. As Wayne lives round the corner, you might even get to see his twin babies if his lady decides to join us.

[Valen]

If it was 2 days I would look to attend one of the Brucebowls, but Portsmouth is a bloody long way from the North West for a one day event

[MrRoberto]

Got a family event that weekend otherwise I’d definitely be there, will keep my eyes peeled for the next one!

[Duffins]

There has been numerous discussion about this, and at the weekend we had some more discussion and got enlightened to some context of other things that had happened that we didn't even know about. The rules pack and the NAF page have been updated.
As expected, you might find that some people will be having drinks, and might be getting into the theme of 'Brucebowl'. I won't be drinking myself, mostly so I can be sure that there are no mistakes with the scores, but with my high blood pressure its got some nasty side effects.
You are not required to remove any items of clothing to get your Brucebowl re-roll, but as we are in the sunny south coast you might see shorts, vests, socks and sandals (I do hope not). And of course a topless person scowling at tiny figures on a pitch of green. As Wayne lives round the corner, you might even get to see his twin babies if his lady decides to join us.

Although the damage is likely to have already been done, it's only fair that I offer thanks when you take the feedback on board and make changes. So thank you!

[Danny]

Just to stick up for the NAF tournament approvals team for a moment, Stimme's recent blog post shows that the excellent Driesfield remains our approver and he's also covering France, Belgium and the Netherlands. That is a non-trivial workload and he is a non-native English speaking staff member. It's easy to miss something like this at first glance, but it would seem from the above posts that this tournament has now been noted and there's a dialogue going on.

I don't know any more than what I've read here, but I am clearly missing some nuance, because I can't see how anyone could think this is a good idea. If you are referencing an in-joke or long-observed but now out-dated tradition, have the TO take his coat off (to reveal a hoodie, or whatever) before play as a ceremonial nod to the gimmick and give everyone a re-roll. Job done.

If you go on the toxic playground that is Blood Bowl Community on Facebook you will see "Bruce Bowl". It's a load of guys in their boxers and nothing else in a shed getting drunk together. Which is cool, and I genuinely have no problem with that at all. It has nothing to do with Blood Bowl, though. It also makes many people uncomfortable, lots of people left the BBC over these posts including a few female players, which is a shame as we don't have load of those anyway.

We all know what Bruce Bowl is. It’s topless drunk guys. Bullshit on pretending it’s anything else. We have enough going on anyway that isn’t making women feel welcome without tournaments and rulesets like this.

So 'Bull$h!t' is just fine, but the sight of a few people having some drinks is not fun. Living on the south coast and going the park, or beach I've seen people all the time in various different outfits.
Would there still be all this objection if we had some gazebos on at the beach, and people are wandering about in and out of the sea. Or even if we were at the building next to the beach and you could seen peoples bodies. My word how prudish is everyone one here, lets go back to the 1900s and make sure we have as many layers on as possible. As for children, my kids have never been bothered by the sight of a human.
As a person who stands up for all rights, this who conversation has gone from 1 to hundred, before I even knew it, and is causing me know end of anxiety. I expected to need to change the wording of the event a bit and it would need tuning, but now even us having some games of Blood Bowl and some beers is being questioned. Not all of us drink either, because of choice, work, or other reasons.
I don't attend Waterbowl because last time it was a sweaty, cramped, and the body odour was not pleasant. That seems more like a reason for people not to go than this, male, female or non-binary, no ones going to enjoy that. So yes please, lets jump on a small group people at a church hall.

Again "a few people having some drinks" isn't what you are doing, is it? You're not fooling anyone here. Fair play if you guys wanna strip down in your shed on a Friday, more power to you, whatever gets you off. But it has no place in a NAF sanctioned tournament. If you can't understand why this is after everything people have already written that's a shame.

There was the most diverse crowd I've seen at a BB tournament at Waterbowl, so looks like the people that went this year don't agree with your assessment.

[Valen]

I have to admit I have read all these posts while giggling to myself. So many of the woke brigade would not have survived the early years of the BB scene, there was so much more debauchery and wild times than a few guys going topless hehe, I even attended a BB torni in a strip club once lol.

I was chatting to a friend of mine about this a coupel of days ago, I liken the BB scene to the WWE in many ways, we were the attitude era, we are now in the PG era. Both fun in their own way, and in hindsight the "attitude era" days were possibly not the best for inclusivness or our health lol.

I do miss the old days but on with the new :0

Lets all be firends and play some BB

[Danny]

Depends how inclusive and diverse you want the hobby to be, if you want a load of guys in a strip club knowing that it's probably going to massively limit the demographics who are going to feel comfortable there then that's up to you and fight for that if you want the direction of the game to go that way. Your whole argument appears to be a fallacy of relative privation.

I wouldn't describe myself as woke, I'm from a rough AF council estate in the midlands with a very poor background and I spent my youth saying and doing things that I cringe at now, looking back. The world was a different place 30 years ago, but people can change their viewpoints and educate themselves, if they want to. Personally I'm currently motivated to do my best to make the BB community a more inclusive and diverse place.

[CrystalMCDoll]

Wonder why there were less women playing Bloodbowl years ago...

[Valen]

Depends how inclusive and diverse you want the hobby to be, if you want a load of guys in a strip club knowing that it's probably going to massively limit the demographics who are going to feel comfortable there then that's up to you and fight for that if you want the direction of the game to go that way. Your whole argument appears to be a fallacy of relative privation.

I wouldn't describe myself as woke, I'm from a rough AF council estate in the midlands with a very poor background and I spent my youth saying and doing things that I cringe at now, looking back. The world was a different place 30 years ago, but people can change their viewpoints and educate themselves, if they want to. Personally I'm currently motivated to do my best to make the BB community a more inclusive and diverse place.

I think thats what I was trying to say tbh lol. But you put it better lol.

Yeah, the world back then was very different and honestly cringe at some of the stuff we got up to lol. Probably wasnt very inclusive at all which is why there was so few women back then

[Valen]

Wonder why there were less women playing Bloodbowl years ago...

100% agree, this whole topic has really made me think about how we probably came off back then, suppose its because I am an old man now too lol

[lgmdaniel]

Tournaments is all finished.

Won by Michael Vernon - Vernanski - using Orcs.