The Spiky Club Open '09 10th/11th October 2009

rodders · Post by **rodders** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 7:55 am

I must admit i never went this year as i thought the decline last year was huge but with mr P back at the helm (or at least involved) i'll be there next year

Ironjaw · Post by **Ironjaw** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 8:41 am

ace2k00 wrote:Please, Please give us another chance. the spiky open we all know and love will be back next year.

Venemous wrote:I think folks are too polite to say anything

Guess that's where I come in then?

Did you know the importance of this tournament to some people on the circuit?

We have a UK Champion running this year and this is the last tournament of the year that coaches can earn points at. For the organisation to be so shambolic at one of the UK's supposedly "prestigeous" events is a real shame. Lycos is a huge advocate of this tournament, but the numbers don't lie Dave (40% down on last year). All it takes is a few frames on the certificates and a very easy to use excel spreadsheet developed specifically for Blood Bowl tournaments and no-one would complain- Oh, and the time limits being not so stringent (I understand that the hall is hired for a specific amount of time, but enforcing a 2 hour rule is silly- It's one of the biggest grumbles people have with the GT)

There is a large consensus that the Spiky Club is using the blood bowl tournament as a profit making tournament to help pay for other things. Lycos tells me this is not the case, and I believe him, but you can see why people would think that, with shoddy prizes, and no real care for the organisation. You had people travel from as far a field as York and the commitment shown by Blood Bowlers deserves a proffessional tournament and not a tournement where the draw and points system weren't implemented until round 4, and no care was taken into who plays who. With rankings in bloodbowl, who you play makes a huge difference, and if the organisers here can't be bothered to correctly match coaches using the Swiss system, then why should coaches bother to travel to play?

I couldn't give a toss if food is provided, and if it's hot or cold. All I want to see is some of our entrance fee put toward some good prizes. I understand the winner got a £25 voucher for GW? That is a huge improvement on last year, and if similar prizes are given to the other prizewinners with certificates in a simple, £2 glass frame then you would see numbers rise back to the glory years.

I fear too much damage may have been done already though...

[/quote]

mattwhile · Post by **mattwhile** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 9:00 am

I felt that this years' one was an improvement on last years. The decline in numbers was wholey expected.

The biggest problem, for me at least, is that it doesn't feel like a community tournament. There's not the same social side as at other tourneys, (even though I can't stay out past 10pm

).

The food was much better than last years, even though there was a ginger cookie monster about.

I think that with the number of tourneys about now, compared to a few years ago, that organisers have to work harder to attract people. Carrot crunch is a good example, seeing the increase in numbers this year over last years, all their hard work paid off and made it one of the highlights on the calender.

firebreather · Post by **firebreather** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 9:12 am

If Dave is more involved then i see no reason why the tournament wont return to what it once was. Prizes are nice but i thought the spiky club trophies that used to be given out were superb {Custom made i assume) personally i`d rather have a nice/individual looking trophy than some gift vouchers. (Not that thats really ever gonna be an issue for me)

I think the probelm is that those that organise the spiky have not been to many other BB tourneys and dont get to see all the great ideas and support that other organisers pour into their tournaments..

This year the food was a definate improvement, and i would be quite happy if that was the same next year. As others have the said the match-up system must be sorted, and thats not neccesarily about ranking/points but if im playing a tournament then i want to be playing people of a similar record/ability as balanced games are more fun imo.

Some good things to do in the future would be
1, to at least announce that the Bar was open and where it was, think it was only that i went round and got a drink that other people followed, i know for a fact that some new players didnt even realise there was a bar available.
2, I always think spot prizes each round are a bit of a laugh particulaly if they are given out for something bad happening, makes a nice change to roll bad dice and win a prize.
3, Perhaps some Spiky club personalised freebie, its easy enough to have personalised dice made up and you could give them away at the clubs other tournaments.

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 9:22 am

firebreather wrote:Prizes are nice but i thought the spiky club trophies that used to be given out were superb {Custom made i assume) personally i`d rather have a nice/individual looking trophy than some gift vouchers.

Yep, agree there - I like my club I got for winning the DB a few years ago.

Also, get the results and pics up on the website - people like to know where they come, and not everyone uses TBB (the horror!

). I know it was one of the reasons we finally got our arses in gear as a club and got a website up and running.

Oh, and talking of websites, get them to update the Contact Us info on the Spiky Club website - it reads as the correct hotmail address, but links to a dead yahoo one.

Pipey · Post by **Pipey** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 9:49 am

Guess I was wrong then...

My experience of Spiky is similar to Matt's.

No community feel. No-one organises a social event e.g. a meal or drinks on the Saturday night. No special effort or new ideas.

Rules are poorly thought out and it sounds like the organisation was below par.

As Ironjaw says, for the climax of the UKC (which a lot of people really enjoy taking part in) it's really poor.

All it would take is the input of one or two people who are active in the community, and it would be 100% better.

Glad to hear Dave is back on board. With Lycos being so local, I think he would be a good person to have as an advisor - somone who has his finger on the pulse to make sure the tourney is in touch with the rest of the community.

For me to travel to a tourney a long way away, it has to be worth it. This year it just wasn't. I don't mind making the effort to attend a tourney I know will be a great craic e.g. Carrot Crunch / Newquay, but Spiky isn't in this category at the moment.

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 9:56 am

Pippy wrote:Guess I was wrong then...

No, you weren't wrong - it was an improvement on last time, but there's still room for futher improvement.

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 10:07 am

I thought it was fine.

What is wrong with the scoring system, it has been the same since 2002, never heard it bought up before. Surely variety is a good thing?

Apart from the draw male chicken ups which score would sort out, time keeping didn't seem a problem.

We went out for a meal fine afterwards.

While others moan about the prizes, personally I'd rather see a lower entry cost and no prizes (or the £25 in vouchers for the winner is fine imo).
I've been going to tournaments for a long time and never won anything at any of them (even those I've finished top 3 in). It certainly isn't my motivation for going along and prizes just encourage ppl taking the teams better suited to specific scoring systems.

Really nice prizes like a painted team or whatever should be given out as a raffle or something so everyone has a chance, regardless of ability or what race they take. We all pay the same entry cost after all.

Funny that people moan about it yet still go to the Blood Bowl which costs even more for less. I don't know how much the hall costs to hire but there are certainly cheaper tournaments that give out prizes as well. Id rather pay less and get extra beer in during the evening.

Ironjaw · Post by **Ironjaw** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 10:27 am

Grumbledook wrote: Id rather pay less and get extra beer in during the evening.

Agreed. Troll bowl in Preston for example, is £15 and the three winners get custom-made trophies, and a buffet is put on for lunch each day. This attracts 25 prople so the organisers get this all done with a budget of about £350. I have never heard anyone complain about it because a) it is cheap and b) there are trophies.

matt while wrote:is that it doesn't feel like a community tournament

Agreed- just like the Blood bowl GT it's made to feel like a profiteering exercise

Grumbledook wrote:Funny that people moan about it yet still go to the Blood Bowl which costs even more for less

Bull sh!t Jon. 3 hot meals & trophies/framed certificates for starters...granted £55 is expensive but this proves how much rankings mean to a lot of coaches. Those regulars that aren't that big on rankings don't go. I go for double rankings points and the prsetige with winning it. Yes I think £55 is expensive, but I still go. I know a lot of people don't like it (Geoff, You, Gav to name a few) and that's fine also. Spiky seems to be like a mini version of the GT, overpriced, undersupported and no care for the NAF community.

firebreather · Post by **firebreather** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 10:41 am

[quote="Ironjaw]Spiky seems to be like a mini version of the GT, overpriced, undersupported and no care for the NAF community.[/quote]

Hate to say it, but i agree with you on that point

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 10:51 am

The double rankings thing is a separate NAF issue and there is nothing a tournament organiser can do about that.

£35 extra for 3 hot meals (which having eaten there a few times hardly feels like value). Just cause something is hot doesn't mean it is better ;]

Dunno how many went this year but I would suggest over 100? so that is £3500+ to provide how many frames that can be picked up for not a lot. I think I can justify saying that it costs more for less. How many of a % of the field even get a cheap framed certificate?

Not to mention the software used there is even worse and swapping opponents for them causes a massive headache for them and from the times I have been they don't even let you do that in the last round. The time keeping is terrible and they have zero flexability with cutting off matches.

Spikey costs the same as the Poobowl and I felt I got as much value from both. I know stick puts effort into getting dice made up and had trophies as well. If I had won the painted team as well then that is obviously a fantastic value prize (but that only goes to one coach). From my persepetive though I got the same value from both Poobowl and spikey this year (given that at poobowl I had to go buy my own lunch).

So yes there is room for improvement at Spikey but I'm putting it into perspective as I felt some of the critisim on here was overly harsh especially from coaches who didn't even go. If you think that is Bull sh!t then you are entitled to your opinion, I just felt that others reading this should get an actual idea from someone who went.

Troll Bowl is obviously fantastic value and it is a commendable effort on their part.

SillySod · Post by **SillySod** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 11:48 am

People are forgetting the nice bar too. If more people were sporting enough to make use of this fine facility then the costs would compare relatively favourably. Actually, I dont think it competes too badly with most other tournaments if you just look at it in terms of ticket price.

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:05 pm

Grumbledook wrote:What is wrong with the scoring system, it has been the same since 2002, never heard it bought up before. Surely variety is a good thing?

I don't think anyone was complaining about the scoring system itself (it's in the rules, you knew about it in advance, if you don't like it, don't go!), I think the complaints were about the fact it wasn't being implemented properly, which as you said, Score would sort straight away.

I do think they should have announced that they'd changed the skills from that written in the rules, rather than assume everyone would be told by someone - 2 of the 4 at my table for game 1 weren't aware (though both knew before the games started).

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:09 pm

how had they changed the skills from what was written in the rules?

I checked the rules pack last wednesday and it said in the pdf you get get skill before each game and that is what it was, was it not?

or was I doing it wrong all weekend along with my opponents ;]

Jimjimjimany · Post by **Jimjimjimany** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:14 pm

This was my first spiky, so I can't comment on the decline, but it was not as well run as many of the other UK tournaments (i may have been to 1 or 2) this year. The swiss system not being implemented properly was what bugged me most.

Although I did have 6 really enjoyable games against outstanding gentlemen, and thats the most important thing. Venue, prizes etc all come second to that.

SillySod wrote:Jimmy gets put in his place... 4th place, just behind me. Result!

I believe your non-framed certificate says 3rd place, mine say 2nd.

Ironjaw wrote:
Lycos wrote:James Gradwell Dwarfs 65 9 13 losing finalist

Cheers leon mate.