Skaven vs Norse (1st time out)

[Skummy]

It's been my experience that WA's are in trouble when 6 strength players are freebooted against them as well. Playoff games can be really tough for a WA team.

[Rogerg1979]

I think he was referring to a woody/fling team (Talking about treemen), not much in the way of ST players there...

Gk.

[Marcus]

No, any team with a ST6 player on it, I'll leave the RO off. If he stands the ST6 player next to you you're pretty much screwed or, at the very least, playing uphill.

If you use your RO as a sweeper then you've taken him away from where he's needed most and are giving up field position closer to the ball. All the opponent has to do then is hold their players back and don't make a run for the line until they're in range of your RO sweeper.

Puts you at a tactical disadvantage all game.

[Rogerg1979]

apologies then, an ST 6 player is annoying...

But the way you wrote it was 6 strength players (Orcs, dwarves, etc...)

see my confusion?

Gk.

[Darkson]

If you know you're facing a Treeman, why not just set the RO in the backfield on your kick, it's not as if the treeman gonna get to you fast.

(Though I bow to your better coaching skills, so you probably show me the error of my ways )

[Marcus]

Rogerg: Thought I just said "treeman". Skummy mentioned the 6 strength players tho so I get your point.

Darkson: I addressed that backfield RO point. If you have to keep your RO hiding from the treeman then you're at a tactical disadvantage as you have to stay 4 squares away from the treeman at all times. If you've got the treeman, keep the focus of your play within that 4 square radius and you've got the advantage.

[Shadow_Dragon]

If your against woodelves they're not going to muck around, they're going to sprint over to your half as soon as there is a hole and an oppurtunity, having your RO and maybe GR back is a VERY usefull thing, your hardly hiding from the treeman, it'd take a treeman half the game to reach you while you have a str 5 defender! Your place the RO 5 spaces from the TD zone not 4 from the treeman!
Especially if you keep the majority of your team back aswell with a form of arrow head formation, this means all he can do is hit the three on the LOS the rest he'll either have to risk far too many tackle zones even for elves or blitz a nice fat gap and then if everyone leaves to assist the touchdown then the Treeman can be swarmed upon and teh catchers/wardancers likewise! And even if you haven't attacked with your RO by this point then you've STILL got a damned fine blitzer to smash any ball carriers, i can't imagine the point in leaving him off the pitch!
Str5 Ma6 in the reserves box? Such a waist!

[Skummy]

Shadow Dragon: Have you seen what happens to WA's when they're forced into two die, opponent's choice blocks? It's not pretty.

[Rogerg1979]

It's a two way thing...

If the opponent is spending too much time getting your WA into bad blocks, then he isn't spending time (and players) in scoring!

With woodies (Discounting treeman) an unexd team need 4 players surrounding the WA to make a problem, if your letting that happen then thats your own fault, not the WA!

Gk.

[Shadow_Dragon]

Shadow Dragon: Have you seen what happens to WA's when they're forced into two die, opponent's choice blocks? It's not pretty.

How often can a woodelf get a WA into a bad block, they need to surround him with 4 people? Certainly wont happen on the first trun as they have to break your defense, also if they do that then they'll have to be ready to lose the treeman and never actually score, because it'll take their whole movement to sprint across the los and stand next to him, while the over defending skeaven LM and SV can just move three squares to the to remove assists, very much the point in keeping a GR AND the RO back, if you put the GR in the right place he'll remove one of the four assists!
Woodelves have a better chance by dumping 1 single Wardancer next to the Rat ogre, block and dodge means theres a 1 in 6 chance of knocking the wardancer down and a 2 in 6 chance of the rat ogre knocking itself down! on each dice, that's assuming the rat ogre hasn't aquired block yet!

[DoubleSkulls]

Assume you are in a position where the only way you can stop your opponent scoring is by rolling lots of stupid dice.

So instead you surround the WA, hope it fails the 1/2 dice block (55% chance) and then can stop the score because you've moved enough people into position to get to the ball carrier.

The other problem of leaving a WD next to a WA is what happens if they do put you down? And the odds are 11/36 of putting him on each block (remember you've got frenzy) so that's a 52% chance of putting the War Dancer down - and then good odds of getting through the armour and taking out your most dangerous player.

The best bloke to leave next to a Wild Animal is a Longbeard.

[Shadow_Dragon]

Again i say, how easy is it to surround a WA without any of the rest of the team being involved? I very rarely leave my rat ogre in a stupid position!
Surrounding it on the first turn is quite improbable!
My point is, keeping your rat ogre IS undeniably usefull, and a lot better than substituting it with a lineman! Why replace a str5 with str3 because you fear a treeman, it's just ridiculous, IMO!
I also ask you, if a woodelf coach surrounds your RA with 4 elves, where the hell are the rest of the skaven team, don't forget they do exist, especially on your side of the LOS, if you leave the RO with no emergency assist then you deserve the turn over!
When i say a wardancer is wiser than 4 lineman is because woodelvers need the numbers, why waist them all on one big guy, the rest of your opponent will have twice as many people to cover your remaining players!

Do you see my point?