How valuable is a passing play?

Mortalman · Post by **Mortalman** » Thu Mar 13, 2003 11:59 am

Hi

point of basic theory - for a hard team how important is it to develop versatility? I play an Orc team and have devoted time and SPPs to getting my thowing game on it's feet and I consider it time well spent. Thing is Orcs are one of the most all round teams in my opinion because they can hit and run, but also they have a dedicated thrower and gobbos who can easily become catchers due to agility skill access.
What I was wondering is whether a team without these advantages would bother. For instance would anyone consider developing a thrower beastman for a chaos team, or a ghoul passer?

Sushé Wakka · Post by **Sushé Wakka** » Thu Mar 13, 2003 12:05 pm

It's always a surprise factor, and helps to get the ball quickly to the cage when your opponent kicks deep. However, it should never become the main strategy of any of the mentioned teams (and that comes from a Norse coach who favors passing plays in his team).

Redfang · Post by **Redfang** » Thu Mar 13, 2003 12:13 pm

I have a Ghoul passer on my undead team, but mostly because I got the chance and just felt like it. I use him as a security back-up when I need to score fast, I don't use him if I have plenty of time to just stroll down the field.
He has 3 increases; pass, accurate, sure hands (rolled double twice) His third skill would have been block for protection, but he got a niggling injury from aging so I gave him Sure hands instead (he's injured anyway and it's good for making him even more trustworthy with the ball)

R

martynq · Post by **martynq** » Thu Mar 13, 2003 12:18 pm

I've also got a ghoul passer on an Undead team. He's got three skills... AG+1, Pass, AG+1. Nice, but not something you can plan for!

Martyn

D'Arquebus · Post by **D'Arquebus** » Thu Mar 13, 2003 12:37 pm

I would probably utilise a ghoul to pass on an undead team because they have another 3 players who are easily built into receivers. Even without a double for Pass, Pro would probably be enough in a pinch. I also see Undead as being the stronger (slower?) version of the Human team. That is one which runs against everyone quicker then them and passes against everyone stronger.

Please note I have never actually run an Undead team, but have played against a fairly experienced coach who always uses Undead for many years. I also have experience with at least 3 teams on either side of the ST/AG divide.

However, I have played Chaos and recently and would not recommend a passer. They have no good receivers and are better at a running game. It IS essential to develop several competent ball handlers of course, even if you mostly hit things, control of the ball and thus the clock is important. The doubles roll to get Pass would be batter spent on Big Hand or V.L.Legs for the extra speed in the running game.

As an aside, there is more then one type of running game and a slow, conservative cage play is not always best. With chaos develop the ability to run both slow and fast, but do not go to the air.

sean newboy · Post by **sean newboy** » Thu Mar 13, 2003 12:42 pm

Ghoul passer yes, Beastman passer no i wouldnt. But that is just my style. The difference is that the undead/necro team has players on it with agility skill access and therefore catch skill can be gained on regular rolls. Maybe if i had already given another beastman pro or extra arms i mite but i doubt it.

Sputnik · Post by **Sputnik** » Thu Mar 13, 2003 1:02 pm

A passing option is [nearly] always of value even if you want to stick to the running game most of the time. If you need to score quickly a passing game is a often required for the slower teams which cannot cross the filed with a hand off play.

Then skills like pass will possibly provide you with a rr which you normally don't have in the late turns of a half.

And it helps being a bit more unpredictable on offense.

If your opponent can concentrate on the running game only you might get stuck. Then you get impatient a try silly things

Why do you want to make a ghoul a passer and not try this with a wight instead?

Due to access to agility skills a ghoul may be the better receiver. He is faster so he should be sent downfield. Someone has to catch the ball. And since he can't regenerate he is a prime target as a passer.

I think wights can do the same job as well. They also need a double for passing skills and you can't give them strength skills. So you don't wate anything here. They have the better armor and may regenerate which protects them more. Of course, if I have a ghoul with AG4, then....

Sputnik

martynq · Post by **martynq** » Thu Mar 13, 2003 1:40 pm

I agree with Sputnik... a wight can also make a good passer for an Undead team - it just depends how the skill rolls work out. With me, it was my ghoul who got AG+1 and then a double, so I decided to make him a thrower. If a wight had got it first then maybe he would have become the thrower instead.

Martyn

sean newboy · Post by **sean newboy** » Thu Mar 13, 2003 1:50 pm

Another thing to consider is that coaches play a part in all of this as well. Some coaches are weak on passing plays even with an elven or human team while some can make even a chaos team capable of them.

roysorlie · Post by **roysorlie** » Thu Mar 13, 2003 2:12 pm

Well, the great thing about chaos, is that yo ucan develope them any bloody way you want, all depending on what incereases they get.

Access to physical abilities is useful.

Big hands, sure hands on one player, to pick up the ball.
Maybe another got AG increase, or you gave him pass on a double.

You have a potentialy good thrower.

A beastman team built for the passing game, could take you by surprise.

It is worth considering. But it all depends on what you roll for skill rolls.

Redfang · Post by **Redfang** » Thu Mar 13, 2003 2:22 pm

surprise only gives you one TD, it rarely wins you games

Balrog · Post by **Balrog** » Thu Mar 13, 2003 5:29 pm

It's never a bad idea to have a Passing option, at some point or another you will need to pass the ball.

-Balrog

Zombie · Post by **Zombie** » Thu Mar 13, 2003 6:11 pm

It's always important to have that option. For chaos, the first beastman to level up usuall gets sure hands. The first double on a beastman is usually big hand, and a second double on that same beastman is an automatic pass skill, no questions asked.

For undead, the first double on a ghoul or wight should go towards pass or accurate. Same for hobgoblins on chaos dwarf teams.

I currently have a pass, accurate sure hands hobgoblin. He is consistantly in the top 5 of the league for completions.

Post by **Thadrin** » Thu Mar 13, 2003 7:51 pm

I develop one of my Runners as a Passer.
The current passer is developing VERY slowly though (16 or so games hes ALMOST at his second skill, through completions and a single TD), because hes the guy who hangs back and grabs the ball before hurling it forward to either my AG5 runner or AG4 Blitzer. I have the rerolls to cover the catch.

For dwarfs, having a passing game to kick start your drive means not having to push your way nearly so far up the pitch, because the bulk of your team can be around the halfway line instead of hanging back to form a pocket deep in your own half. It also allows for the possibility of building strength on one side while ignoring the other and not being caught out by kicks away from your strongside.

In short (pun intended) a Passing aspect to your game is almost essential for any team, at least in my book.

Smeborg · Post by **Smeborg** » Mon Mar 17, 2003 4:05 am

A passing option is by no means essential for a ST team, but it's very nice to have.

I had an Undead team once (when 2 Wights wee allowed). The Wights had (a) Sure Hands, AG+1, Tackle and (b) Sure Hands, Tackle, Accurate. This side won its first 19 games, greatly helped by these 2 guys. They could knock anyone over, pick up the ball, and pass it on a 2+. Nice.

Hope this helps.

Cheers

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