Orc Team Getting CRUSHED and needs advice!

[nkelsch]

Here is my team:
#1: Ogre - 6SPP - +1 agility
#2: Black Orc - 2SPP
#3: Black Orc - 16SPP - Block, Pile On (Pile on is the gravy Train to SPP!)
#4: Black Orc - 0SPP
#5: Black Orc - 0SPP
#6: Blitzer - 4SPP
#7: Blitzer - 12SPP - Guard
#8: Blitzer - 12SPP - Guard
#9: Thrower - 9SPP - Accurate Pass
#10: Kicker - 13SPP - Dirty Kick (we use kicking rules)
#11: Lineman - 0SPP
#12: Lineman - 0SPP
#13: Lineman - 17SPP - Block, Tackle
#14: Lineman - 5SPP
#15: Lineman - 0SPP
#16: Goblin - 11SPP - Pro

Ok, here is the deal... EVERYONE in my leauge has speed speed speed and crushes me. Now, Every drive I am sending close to 4 people off the pitch and 4-5 causlties a game, but still... I LOSE!

When I try to Run the ball, I instantly have 9 guys on me like flies on poop. So I have gone the passing route since when I run it I get NO points.

But other teams are all friggin over me! Does every team but mine dodge on a 2+? Almost every other team does EVERYTHING on a 2+ with a reroll. I need some ideas how to win some games. Personally I hate holding the ball since they seem to dodge and always be in range to get a 2 die block on my ball carrier no matter what.



Depending how my opponent sets up:
*kicker/thrower int he backfield, pick up the ball, hand off to the goblin and have the ogre throw it. Gobbo lands... turn 1 touchdown. I have PRO to give me a shot of rerolling the goblins landing should he fail. This has been working for the past 3 games about 75% of the time... if he can;t run it in, I kick a field goal.
*If I can't rely on the gobbo, and I see my ogre can break through, I break the line, send the ogre and friends downfield and form a 'cage'. Pass ball to ogre. Being agility 3, he handles the ball no better or worse than any other orc, but he can't use rerolls. Once he has the ball, it is hard to get him to drop it.

Note: Only reason I have 4 black orcs is because our leauge has a 'PRISON' team that has players across from lots of teams. If you beat them, you can 'hire' a prison team player in addition to your roster. So I can get a Black orc Prison guy for a total of 5 BO as long as I had 4 when I enter the game.

[Munkey]

I wouldn't try to use the Ogre to throw the Gobbo unless you need a one turn touchdown.

Your best bet would probably be to secure the ball with the thrower then form up into a cage and rumble slowly up the pitch aiming to score in 6-8 turns. Don't rush as you need to play the clock, let them score then do the same again in the second half for a 2-1 win.

Your BO and Guard Blitzers should put up a good fight in the attrition stakes and evntually numerical superiority should allow you to move up the pitch. If you feel you need a scoring threat then run the Gobbo out into the open as a reciever (catch would be a good skill to get).

I would also reccommend getting another Blitzer asap as they are your most versatile players and the fastest on your team and so best able to compete with the speedier teams.

Skill wise you might want to try tackle if there's a lot of dodge players you play against, it makes quite a difference.

Good luck and happy bashing.

[Artificial Penguin]

Munkey said what I was going to say

Mainly:
1) use a cage. if you have a solid cage/screen going, it won't be easy for teams to get on you. I also say this because you've already developed two players with Guard, which will help out quite a bit in this regard.

2) Tackle also helps. I've heard that you really have to get it on a lot of players to make it worthwhile, but it's still useful on defense with only one guy...maybe even more so than Strip Ball if you're playing a lot of Elfie/Amazon teams.

3) (also as Munkey said) develop more Blitzers.

If you find yourself knocking their players off the pitch, ask yourself when does this happen? When you're on Defense or Offense? Is playing the Hurt/Kill game distracting you from setting up good protect from scoring? Focus on your coaching weaknesses.

[DoubleSkulls]

Obviously my earlier response got lost in the ether.

Get another blitzer. Blitzers are the best players on your roster. Get tackle, gets lots of tackle. Give all your blitzers tackle.

Basically you need to control the clock against most teams. Try to take the whole half over scoring, while protecting the ball carrier and beating your opponents up. Slow steady drives on offence will generally allow you to carry away all in your path.

On defence try to ensure you have decent 2nd lines and/or strong players back to sack any break away ball carrier. At the same time try to pressure the opponent's thrower and be in a position to either sack him or exploit a bit of bad luck (failed pickup, fumbled pass).

[nkelsch]

Well , since so many peoplein my leauge seem to have run away fan factor and money to burn, half the time they freeboot a wizard against me... every time I get a good cage going, they end up fireballing me...

My last game against the high elves, he 'got the ref' and 'fireballed' me and ended up taking 6 players off the field in one turn.

I was also fouled 7/8 turns that half.

It just seems that if the opponent gets the ball, all is lost... with gusy who can move 9+ and sure feet, and dodge, they can complete almost any action on a 2+ with a reroll. Most speed teams from anywhere on the field can score in 1 turn...

Get ball hand off to thrower down field, thrower moves, passes to catcher, catcher runs it in.

I kept my one guy with tackle on the wardancers in my last game and it forced him to use his blitz most times to take the tackle guy down. While mildy effective, I think your right... without buckets of guys with tackle... it ain't all that and easily avoidable.

Maybe I am just rolling bad... I rolled 7 fumbles last game and 4 of them were double 1s... I can't make a 3+ roll to save my life.

At least the casulties are pilingup... I am averaging 4+ a game now...

[Munkey]

Are you playing with the latest version of the rules? (LRB 2.0 available from the GW website).

If you are then your opponents should be running out of money real soon if they keep burning it on wizards to use against you.

If you are losing out on the fouling war then don't foul and they will soon get a load of guys sent off when the refs watching. Alternatively get a dirty player and give them what for.

I also wonder if you are not concentrating on cas at the expense of the ball, my Orc team has nowhere near a 4 per game cas average (closer to 1) but had the second best record in our league (until my two game playoffs losing streak )

[nkelsch]

Yes... they burn 50k a game... Since I am one of the few 'BRUISER' teams, they only buy them against me...

And I normally don't foul much, but he had the ref so NO penalties would be called against him that half.

I try to focus on the ball, my passer is excellent and very reliable with 11 completions now. And I pretty much don't make blocks before ball handling unless it is a 'two dice with block' block.

Rolls that get me are:
*Go for its
*Picking up Ball

I seem to always roll 1's, and when I use rerolls I roll 1's again. and then the ball is out int he middle of nowhere ready for someone to pick up on a 2+ with a reroll!

I am trying to focus more on the ball and less on crushing bones... and I seemed to do better when I crushed bones...

[squiggoth]

I've got the same problem with Going For It and picking up balls... Orcs just can't do stuff like that! However, my black orcs are perfectly capable of dodging and GFI and my Ogre has picked up twice as many balls as my thrower. Just learn to live with the fact that Orcs never do what you intend and try to win by surprising your opponents! Oh, and when you've beaten the pulp out of 5 Wuss Elves there won't be many left to stop your Ogre from scoring...

Martijn

[Mortalman]

Besides your bad luck, which all the good coaching in the world will do nothing about, there are a few things you can try. Firstly clearly you are taking more injuries than your dealing out, against elves this is BAAAD news for Orcs! So hit people: you have blockers, you have blitzers just hit stuff. You'll find they break fairly easy, and once your opponent has a few players off the pitch it all seems to run smoother! I always take all the blocks I can get away with before touching the ball. Many players kick deep against Orcs thinking it'll be hard to cage, but what it means is that if something goes wrong your opponent shouldn't be able to grab the ball on his first turn, so you can leave it. Seriously, set up your front line to punish him batter a few elves, maybe foul them if your really hung up about it. Don't go for the ball until everyone else is done, one of the worst things that can happen to you is not getting a shot at him on turn 1 because you fail the pick up roll, and then he dances away and you never get another chance.
If the ball lands within his range you do need to do something about it, but consider whether you can block all the players in range of the ball and if so do it! I usually have several players floating in the backfield to pick up the ball, so move any in range around the ball to put tackle zones onto it before you make any other moves. This is always worth doing if you are paranoid about pick up rolls as if you do screw up it may scatter onto a player of yours and should certainly end up with a couple of TZs on it, that'll change the easy 2+ roll into a possible turnover!

Relying on your passing game against fast agile teams is dangerous. Sure try it sometimes to keep him guessing but I wouldn't make a habit of it. In a cage you should at least have some security because if something goes wrong it is unlikely to be with the player holding the ball, so worst case they still have to block him and recover it. If you screw up a pass/catch/GFI to get away your opponenet simply has to pick up the ball.

Wizards are a pain, but can only be used once. Spread your men out a bit on your first drive, don't create a solid 9 square tank that'll be destroyed by a fireball. Play hard on defence but if he's going to score in 2 turns you may be able to get one back in before time.

Hope you get a break.

[Khrys_Antos]

I had the same problem last season with my CD's, at least at the start. Everyone was beating no matter how much I tried to injure them.

The posters above are right you need more blitzers and consider getting sure hands on a carrier (stops strip ball) and a slow moving cage formation right at the start so they burn the wizard asap.

If this doesn't work, turn your team into a bunch of murdering maniacs, screw the ball and rampage through his guys. Target the linemen first; since they have usually few skills and the opposing player may burn the Apo.. Use the entire first half to maim the other team, and then use the second half to do the same. I lost alot of games with the CD, but I had a mad amount of fun when I saw 8+players in the dead and injured box. Crippling other teams is the next best thing to winning.

[Dragoonkin]

Yeah, if they're all going to play "We do everything on a 2+" Elf teams and seem to have money to burn, screw the ball and make them burn that money on new players. THEN you won't see any Fireballs. They'll be too busy buying Linemen.

[Count Zappa]

From my perspective (I play 3rd edition), the combo of Stand Firm and Tackle on Orc Blitzers goes a long way toward stopping fast teams with a lot of Dodge.

Keep playing, keep building. Orcs tend to start slowly, but become very effective once everyone on the team has 2+ improvements.

One key is to build the Black Orcs into an effective hitting unit... I always get them Block, Stand Firm and Guard and use them to anchor the cage on offence and the line of scrimmage on defence.

[NightDragon]

Orcs do start slow but get a lot better as they develop. Plenty of guard skills are needed to protect the thrower, and send this pocket up the pitch. If you win the front line battle with your BO's then these can help. One or two linemen up near the end zone just in case you throw and eventually you get there, but it takes time.