3 Khemri questions

[Gimli]

On a related but separate note to my last post, what are the best Khemri inducements? So far I have not had much more than 100,000, and have thus stuck to Babes, but I did try an Igor once. I had a 3 skill Throw-Ra die, and all the Igor did was let me reroll the Regen roll, which failed again. As compared to an APO, seemed like not as good value. I haven't got to use any of the Star Players in TT, but online I liked the 220,000 ST4 with Juggernaut (Setekh?).

[Moraiwe]

I've had the most success with Bribes and Cards (Misc. Mayhem for preference).

[Glowworm]

I like Sinnebad (?) hes cheap has block and stab, also secret weapon but as I want an 8 turn grind that's not much of an issue..

[crimsonsun]

For non Cyanide I love Hack N Slash as he really adds to your damage out put over the course of a drive. In cyanide Nekbrek is the only really worthwhile inducement though bribes can be useful as they allow you to foul during your turn rather than at the end of it which can open up a huge amount of fouling chances without harming your overall positioning.

Played the first of my listed matches result was 1-1 though I should have got the win but took a risk and ran my Throw Ra out alone because it would take 7 dodges and 4Gfi's for my opponent to get a 2die block on it from that position with no rerolls on hand I didn't think he'd even try it let alone succeed but sadly he did and I was then unable to gather the lose ball with the right player before the clock ran out. Was really stupid as I should have held back one more turn but I was worried about how committed I was and concerned I would not make the end zone in time but I should have known better. Next up are the 2340 Chaos side who give me 400k in inducements currently which will likely be Nekbrek and a Wizard though Ramtut is tempting as I already have a huge Strength Advantage so Ramtut would really build upon it.

Also I should say I do not rate Wizards for Khemri at all, we are possibly the worst team for capitalising upon what a wizard brings to the table, however the threat of a Wizard is often far more effective than the outcome and just having that threat handing can force your opponent to play differently. It can also be used to save my arse if I have a terrible turn of blocking which results in multiple players left in contact following my turn (I tend to only concede an average of 35 blocks/blitzes during a game, while dishing out around 55) which should hopefully reduce the amount of damage I'm exposed to.

[babass]

I like Sinnebad (?) hes cheap has block and stab, also secret weapon but as I want an 8 turn grind that's not much of an issue..

+1

[Gimli]

The problem I see with Khemri is that once they get to around 200 TV or so they are going to be playing with a bunch of Claw POMBer teams. Even with ST5, the usually Block-less TGs are going to succumb quickly, unless they can be skillfully and repeatedly shielded by skellies. (Skellies are the best Claw POMBer defense - their AV7 makes them "immune" to Claw, and their TS makes them much more likely to stay on the pitch). I intend to take my TT Khemri team into my League's advanced Division which is dominated by a couple of scary Chaos/Chaos Dwarf teams, and right now my only plan is to have a few DPs and use my inducements on Bribes. Any other thoughts on how Khemri survives/fares at high TV?

Thx for the comments on Inducements, but what about my earlier point - how does Khemri fare in high TV games with Claw POMBers?

[crimsonsun]

Thx for the comments on Inducements, but what about my earlier point - how does Khemri fare in high TV games with Claw POMBers?

Chaos, Chaos Dwarf, Underworld and Skaven High Tv CPOMBers are possible for Khemri to handle unless your opponent gets lucky on player removal very early and puts you at a solid player disadvantage. Block/Fend & Wrestle/Fend Skeletons make fantastic players for obstructing the path of CPOMBers movement though I'd advise avoiding directly marking them unless absolutely required. In fact I think that's possibly the biggest trick to surviving against such teams - Reducing any blocks received to an absolute minimum and backing up your players so any follow up's will leave them in contact with your Hitters or blockers. When blitzing generally I look to see how I can use pushes to further minimise contact reducing them to there only blocking being there blitz which you can to an extent control which players are exposed.

OK I play a Chaos team with 3rr FF8 2280 + pending tv
Warrior -
Warrior Guard, Block
Warrior Block, Claw, MB, Jump Up, PO
Warrior Block, Sidestep
Mino Block, Pro, Claw, Tentacles, Guard
Beast -
Beast +ag, wrestle, pending
Beast +ag, block ,-av
Beast +str block, tackle, mighty blow, claw
Beast +ag. block, tackle, might blow, dodge
Beast block, mb, claw, PO, tackle,
Beast Guard, Block -ma
Beast +ma, +str, block

With my Khemri 3rr FF7 1950tv
Guardian +str mb guard
Guardian block
Guardian mb. guard, stand firm
Guardian guard
Blitz ra +str, Frenzy, Juggernaut, Stand Firm, mb
Blitz Ra Mb, PO, JU, Tackle, Juggs, Pro
Throw Ra +str block, tackle, Kick off return, fend
Throw Ra block
Skeleton +str block
Skeleton +str
Skeleton Dirty player
Skeleton block, Guard
Skeleton - block, fend, MNG

I'm thinking about brining in a rookie Skeleton or two for the LoS, thoughts?

Then inducements at least 270 but could be as high as 400 if they replace a rookie that died the previous game, playing on cyanide btw. I feel Nek brek could be worth its weight or ramtut as it would build upon my high strength, though babes are likely to be invaluable also.

Advice? Thanks in advance.
crimsonsun

[SunDevil]

In addition to the fine points listed above, Khemri deal with ClawPOMB at high TV with massive amounts of Guard.

If Nuffle has smiled upon you, you'll have 7 or 8 Guard on the team. That makes it so much harder for POMBers to get 2 die blocks and makes your natural ST advantage even better. Your frontline become a hill that can't be climbed.

Then sprinkle in calculated Blitz-Ra hits and lots of Dirty Player Skelly fouls.

[Gimli]

Chaos, Chaos Dwarf, Underworld and Skaven High Tv CPOMBers are possible for Khemri to handle unless your opponent gets lucky on player removal very early and puts you at a solid player disadvantage. Block/Fend & Wrestle/Fend Skeletons make fantastic players for obstructing the path of CPOMBers movement though I'd advise avoiding directly marking them unless absolutely required. In fact I think that's possibly the biggest trick to surviving against such teams - Reducing any blocks received to an absolute minimum and backing up your players so any follow up's will leave them in contact with your Hitters or blockers. When blitzing generally I look to see how I can use pushes to further minimise contact reducing them to there only blocking being there blitz which you can to an extent control which players are exposed.


With my Khemri 3rr FF7 1950tv
Guardian +str mb guard
Guardian block
Guardian mb. guard, stand firm
Guardian guard
Blitz ra +str, Frenzy, Juggernaut, Stand Firm, mb
Blitz Ra Mb, PO, JU, Tackle, Juggs, Pro
Throw Ra +str block, tackle, Kick off return, fend
Throw Ra block
Skeleton +str block
Skeleton +str
Skeleton Dirty player
Skeleton block, Guard
Skeleton - block, fend, MNG

I'm thinking about brining in a rookie Skeleton or two for the LoS, thoughts?

Then inducements at least 270 but could be as high as 400 if they replace a rookie that died the previous game, playing on cyanide btw. I feel Nek brek could be worth its weight or ramtut as it would build upon my high strength, though babes are likely to be invaluable also.

Advice? Thanks in advance.
crimsonsun

Definitely agree with buying another skeleton, and bringing your roster to 14 players.
Essential line fodder, and about half the price of a merc skeleton.

There are an extraordinary number of ST increases - five - on your team. You must be very hard to push around on the pitch. I think I would have taken Block on the TG instead of the ST, but I know there are two schools on that point.

I see you took Juggernaut on both Blitzers. I think that skill is of greatest value to Block less Big Guys with Frenzy, but I see you took it on one Blitzer without Frenzy - do you find you get value from it?

[MattDakka]

I see you took Juggernaut on both Blitzers. I think that skill is of greatest value to Block less Big Guys with Frenzy, but I see you took it on one Blitzer without Frenzy - do you find you get value from it?

Since Juggernaut counters Wrestle, Stand Firm and Fend thus allowing to pile on a Wrestle/Fend player it makes sense to have it even on a PO player without Frenzy.

[Gimli]

I see you took Juggernaut on both Blitzers. I think that skill is of greatest value to Block less Big Guys with Frenzy, but I see you took it on one Blitzer without Frenzy - do you find you get value from it?

Since Juggernaut counters Wrestle, Stand Firm and Fend thus allowing to pile on a Wrestle/Fend player it makes sense to have it even on a PO player without Frenzy.

Don't disagree at all, but how often is that going to happen? Once every three or four games? I have tried to focus on Wrestle players with my Juggernaut player, but in the end I've came away with the view that you get a lot more use, and thus value, out of Guard.

[MattDakka]

I see you took Juggernaut on both Blitzers. I think that skill is of greatest value to Block less Big Guys with Frenzy, but I see you took it on one Blitzer without Frenzy - do you find you get value from it?

Since Juggernaut counters Wrestle, Stand Firm and Fend thus allowing to pile on a Wrestle/Fend player it makes sense to have it even on a PO player without Frenzy.

Don't disagree at all, but how often is that going to happen? Once every three or four games? I have tried to focus on Wrestle players with my Juggernaut player, but in the end I've came away with the view that you get a lot more use, and thus value, out of Guard.

The point is you don't want to get stuck with a blitzing killer player in case of a double Both Down or Both Down/Skull is rolled, also Guard is not so good on a PO player who is going to lie on the pitch often, generally speaking you don't want him standing because he could be blitzed.
Juggernaut, by turning Both Down into a Push Back, helps the player to go back to a safe place, instead of staying there or risking a dodge with AG 2.

[crimsonsun]

Not exactly as Matt describes it, but nearly there! Juggernaut is fantastic on Killers with block because it cancels Wrestle outright which makes defensive wrestle players easy targets (50% per die take down) especially since you often find them with Fend as well! While its not used every match, on those it is its a game changer and I don't build Killers without it as a result. The other Blitzer plays a very different role on the field and is used for creating space for my advance or setting up double/triple Surfs from a few squares out of the side lines, which obviously makes Juggernaut equally effective for shifting those players with stand firm or fend around. Also about once per season someone doesn't see Juggernaut or Frenzy and sets up a str4 blocker close to the sidelines for a first turn surf.

Normally I recommend Khemri steer well clear of the sidelines because Decay and hits bypassing Armour is not a recipe for success but if you can position wisely and utilise Stand Firm, Juggernaut and Grab to control the midfield well it can be a seriously potent tool for our side and is the most reliable form of player removal we have at our disposal. I would strongly suggest feeling out your opponent first however as coaches that excel at positional play will normally make you pay for such play by instead blocking your advance leaving you little in the way of options for progression up the field, often stalling out your defence entirely.

Guard on my Killer would be a waste of time as I avoid contact when ever I can with him, normally early game I blitz and retreat behind cover (too protect against fouling), then only once I have established control or I can isolate players do I utilise PO but either way Guard would not help me at all while Juggernaut will at least allow me to push my target backwards if all else fails so I can retreat him successfully. I've had 3 Superstar and 1 Legendary Killer blitz Ra killed between my two league teams now because teams will go out of there way to target them so I'm extremely cautious in my play style though that goes across the board as I always seek to minimise my opponents blocks against my team as much as is possible because while we have high strength our Armour is lacklustre on 50% of our players leaving us poor at taking hits over long term leagues.

I've been blessed with Strength increases on my squad I cannot lie though I need 2-4 more Guards to back it up really as I often run into teams with multiple high strength players and 8 - 12 Guards on there roster which will counters my strength if I allow myself to get tied up in scrums. That in combination with the huge number of claw players I meet on a seasonal basis (7/10 teams this season had CPOMB and CMB players) means I really need some additional Guard to protect myself against these hits. Regarding taking the +str on the Guardian it was because I already had 3+str players on the team and I wanted to really maximise on my teams Strength and build around that as a focus of the team, with the other high strength players and Guards it becomes very difficult for many teams to handle over the course of a game.

Just to conclude Juggernaut is fantastic on Killer Blitz Ra's (Any Killer really) and is something I wouldn't be happy without at high TV as a counter to wrodge fend players which are very common in the leagues I play in and it makes playing High Tv Elves far more enjoyable as they often field 6+ Wrodgers alongside 6+blodgers often including high Ma, Ag5 Leaping, Tackle Wrodgers who need dealing with to stop there 2die uphill attacks on the ball carrier.

crimsonsun

[crimsonsun]

I just thought of a way of putting my anti Khemri Ag increase stance outside Throw Ra's.

If the best you can ever attain is to a middling swordsman, then your better off not fighting at all as battlefields are filled with the corpses of those of middling ability. Better instead to know and understand your strengths building upon them and using them to over come to opposition than to waste resources to be average at best at something others do naturally.

[MKL]

Crimsonsun, I haven't yet made my mind about +ag blitz-ra, but I thank you for your lengthy insights into Khemri strategy. Interesting read.
By the way, it's years since I last played Khemri, but I clearly remember the need to dominate the midfield that you mentioned: indeed, it influenced my playstyle permanently.