All about Dark Elves

[Uldreg]

Don't cut anyone. Let the other guys get a few inducments. You will need the deep bench against those killy teams. And you can foul vs those Flair teams like Ratti and the Posse... In fact i think ypu need another witch...

[Asperon Thorn]

Not only would I not cut anyone, but I would also buy that second witch, sooner rather than later. Get her skilled up and make that bench deeper. Against bashy killy teams you are just going to end up with one of those games where you lose 5 or 6 players no matter what. (Often, as Nuffle would have it, on the first 5 or 6 blocks in the game.)

Asperon Thorn

[dines]

Agree with the others, go for the second witch. Furthermore, I would definately try to add some skills to the lineelves. It looks like your blitzers get all the attention. I can't see where to shave stuff off them apart from maybe the nos blitzer and assassin, but again both can be fun against softer teams.

[Megr1m]

Weeeelp, the tv problem seems to have taken care of itself. After my second round match against a Scaven team, I am now down from 220 to 130 in team value. Had two Blitzers killed and two players at -1AG. All because of a single Storm Vermin with MB. Try as I might, wasn't able to get that pos off the pitch, what with the five Guard on his team. Suffice it to say, DE players are a pain to replace.

[Asperon Thorn]

Hate to say I told you so. . .

Being an old hand at this. I have teams that go through that 3 or 4 times during thier career. I give special awards for those to those that have been with the team since it's inception. (Ussually just the kicker.)

Asperon Thorn

[Smeborg]

Ditto. I lost 3 Blitzers and a Witch in 2 games recently. [Edit - it was actually 3 Witches and a Blitzer.]

[Megr1m]

I think this is the second time this team has gone through the culling process. Had a whole bunch of players killed/maimed once before, but they weren't my key Blitzers. This time however, it seems that MB has finally caught up with them. Had another player (just a Lineman) killed last game against an equally depleted Human team. I threw a whole bunch of fouls for the entire first half, assists and all, only to continuously roll 1s and 2s on the dice. fffffff

I need tactical advice I think (or rather, I'm starting to realise the value of Blodge/SS/Fend spam now, but that's another story...) How do you guys deal with the following style of play: basically, my opponents turtle-up. Both the Scaven and the Human player would ball-up on kick off, putting all of their key (in this case being the MB/PO Stormvermin/Blitzers, and any other ace players they had) in the center, cross-guarded and out of Blitz/foul range. Then they would proceed to just screen with disposable fodder, while Blitzing once-per-turn with the MB/etc... After the Blitz the player would just run back into safety (or have multiple guards glued to his arse), and just sit on his hands. If they end up (which my opponents did) removing one player per Blitz, how do I actually deal with this? My own Blitzes fizzle, my fouls do nothing, and as DE I have no access to spammed Guard or MB to push into him and force a hitting match.

I'm at kinda a loss here. I suppose that pressing into one side and playing a keep-away game would work, to try and force them into suboptimal plays to try and keep me out. Possibly switching sides once they commit - but against both Scaven and Humans I don't exactly have the speed to play for breakaways, and on top of that I'm getting out-bashed and continuously bleeding players.

Suggestions?

[TuernRedvenom]

Like I said before you really lack side step. Blodge/SS should be spammed across the roster at higher TV. Vs SS the Blitz and hide game doesn't work when he doesn't get a knockdown. With SS you can also engage at your own terms better -> move into contact with non-tackle players. SS for position and bash them back. If they really have you outguarded back off and use your superior positioning skills.

[Asperon Thorn]

Destroy the disposable fodder. You don't need to target their key players you just need to get players off the pitch. Especcially with other primarily str 3 teams. Unskilled lineman? Knock him down and kill him. Blitzer? Same thing.

Witches with sidestep really come in handy because then you can start sending them off the sidelines. But the important thing is that you should always be able to get local superiority with DE, which eventually allows you to get numerical superiority overall. A MB/Claw SV NEEDS that fodder around, and if you remove it he becomes a lot less effective.

Asperon Thorn

[danton]

Yeah side-step helps to prevent this sort of stalling tactic, as blitzes on side-steppers that don't work potentially leave their MB blitzer in contact with your player next turn. Beyond that you need to set up a double screen and prevent him from making any forward progress, so that he starts to get impatient and takes more risks. If you can box him in on the sideline then you can also use your side-step and frenzy combo to start de-pitching players.

[mattgslater]

Yeah side-step helps to prevent this sort of stalling tactic, as blitzes on side-steppers that don't work potentially leave their MB blitzer in contact with your player next turn. Beyond that you need to set up a double screen and prevent him from making any forward progress, so that he starts to get impatient and takes more risks. If you can box him in on the sideline then you can also use your side-step and frenzy combo to start de-pitching players.

Not only that, but a Side Step anchor can help you establish a screen with fewer players, especially against heavy teams.

[Coach Grievous]

Heya, new poster here but an old hand at BB..

I've recently started a DE team and have found them quite changed from the old days. I haven't been all that successful to my dismay with a record of 3-2-3 (which is pretty terrible for me), but I've been re-learning the ropes and the peculiarities of the newest edition. One of my mistakes has been to play a rather throwing intensive game which just doesn't seem to come as easily as when we still had throwers. Likewise, I've been avoiding the fight too much and have come to realize that the Dark Elves don't win by avoiding the fight, but by dictating it. Anyway, onto my topic..

The Ziggurat
- - - -|- - x x x - -|- - - -
- - - -|- - - - - - -|- - - -
- - x -|- x - - - x -|- x - -
- x - -|x - - - - - x|- - x -

Inverted Ziggurat
- - - -|- - x x x - -|- - - -
- - - -|- - - - - - -|- - - -
- x - -|x - - - - - x|- - x -
- - x -|- x - - - x -|- x- -

Why the love for Inversed Ziggurat over the standard Zig - specifically here in the case of Dark Elves? Seems to me like with the inverted one it becomes easier to gain a 2 die block versus the furthest winger and with that he is liable to go down and open a route along the side line. The regular Zig presents this threat to the inner winger, but blitzing him down won't open up any routes. The presence of sidestep on the players (Blitzers, probably) in question doesn't seem to change this much.

[mattgslater]

Inverted Ziggurat only works if the winger has Side Step. If he does, you can shunt the action to the interior, because a falling SS'er can go down along the sideline and no hole is opened. This maximizes skills like Diving Tackle or Shadowing on the flanker, and gives utility to players with anti-dodge skills but not commensurate positioning skills.

[Coach Grievous]

Inverted Ziggurat only works if the winger has Side Step. If he does, you can shunt the action to the interior, because a falling SS'er can go down along the sideline and no hole is opened. This maximizes skills like Diving Tackle or Shadowing on the flanker, and gives utility to players with anti-dodge skills but not commensurate positioning skills.

The same situation applies with full effect to the ordinary ziggurat.

See below, where
o = Standing Dark Elf
x = Downed Dark Elf
B = Opposing Blitzer (before the follow up)
A = Opposing Assist

Blitzed Regular Ziggurat
- - - -|
- - - -|
B - o -|
x - - -|

Blitzed Inverted Ziggurat
- - - -|
A B - -|
- - - -|
x - o -|

The gain in the Inverted Ziggurat is the placement of the potential assist in a position where a crowd push is possible. However, in this case he will be undoubtedly be protected by a screen of friendly players and/or aggressive marking. To succesfully push him out you'd have to place a player behind him, which seems a bit unlikely if the opposing team is making their Blitz along this sideline.

[mattgslater]

No. The gain in the inverted ziggurat is:

1) The flanker is protected, and can't be marked.

2) The benefit in blitzing wide is lost to the Side Step winger (you are correct that it is lost also in the Ziggurat), driving the action to the inside. It's not the lost benefit of blitzing wide that the inverted Zig pulls off. It's the added protection on the interior positions. Having the inverted formation means you can maintain your reinforced screens and still protect your "strong" (interior) players on the inside by putting them at the safety position. In a conventional Zig, the midfielder has to defend an "island" and is vulnerable to blitzing. In an inverted Zig, the midfielder isn't actually defending valuable territory: if you want to partition the midfield, you have to get through the safety. If the defender has Side Step on the LOS, you pretty much have to knock guys out if you want to open a hole.