Turnover or completed pass?

Arkan · Post by **Arkan** » Tue Apr 22, 2003 1:45 pm

Following situation in our last game:
Accurate pass to one player, player does not catch it, ball scatters one square and is caught by another player of the same team. Is that a completed pass, a turnover or none of the two.

narkotic · Post by **narkotic** » Tue Apr 22, 2003 1:50 pm

its a completed pass (SPPs) bc. the pass was accurate and caught by a player of the same team (it doesn't matter if the targeted player catches it or another one, as long the pass was accurate)

its not a turnover, its written somewhere in the rules (a turnover is only when you pass a ball and it ends up on an empty square or an opponent's player) On the other hand, a missed pick-up or hand-off is always a turnover regardless where the ball ends up.

Agentrock · Post by **Agentrock** » Tue Apr 22, 2003 1:53 pm

I'm not 100% sure about the completion part but officially it is not a turnover if the moving team ends up catching the ball (even if it wasn't the intended catcher).

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Tue Apr 22, 2003 2:12 pm

narkotic wrote:its a completed pass (SPPs) bc. the pass was accurate and caught by a player of the same team (it doesn't matter if the targeted player catches it or another one, as long the pass was accurate)

Correct, the pass is complete and counts for SPPs and is not a turnover.

Only 2 things count for SPPs:
1) Was the PASSING roll that started the whole mess accurate.
2) When the ball came to rest did a member of the thrower's team other than the thrower have the ball.

A pass only results in a turnover if it is fumbled (doesn't matter if its then caught) or comes to rest on the ground or in an opponents hands.

On the other hand, a missed pick-up or hand-off is always a turnover regardless where the ball ends up.

This statement is 1/2 right. A missed pick-up is always a turnover ... however a missed hand-off is not.

The easiest thing to remember is this statement
A FAILED CATCH ROLL NEVER RESULTS IN A TURNOVER BY ITSELF

This is why failing to catch a pass, failing to catch a bouncing ball, or failing to catch a hand-off is never a turnover unless failing the catch ends with you losing possession of the ball when it comes to rest.

Galak

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Tue Apr 22, 2003 2:14 pm

The new version of the PBeM tool (2.4) now automatically awards SPPs for completions. To get used to the official rules, it might be worth messing around with version 2.4 when it comes out at the end of the month so you can see when a completion is awarded and when one isn't with passing.

Galak

Asmodan · Post by **Asmodan** » Tue Apr 22, 2003 3:09 pm

As Galak said, its an completion award and not a turnover.

christer · Post by **christer** » Tue Apr 22, 2003 5:51 pm

It can be argued that the second player didn't catch the accurate pass though but that the player is catching a scattering ball.

In this scenario, you don't get any SPPs but it's not a turnover either.

This issue has come up in FUMBBL as well and I don't really know the official interpretation of this.

Galak, have you had your ruling confirmed by the BBRC?

-- Christer

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Tue Apr 22, 2003 6:26 pm

christer wrote:Galak, have you had your ruling confirmed by the BBRC?

Yes, I have had words from the BBRC on this one ... the wording gets dissected like I said above. The fact that the player is actually catching a bouncing ball is not the focus of the sentence ... its was the pass roll accurate ... then did anyone catch it before it came to rest.

Alright I've been worn down ... I'll add to the Hot List to add a few words to page 39 so that it reads:

"Completions (COMP): A player who makes an accurate pass that is caught by another player when the ball finally comes to rest even if it bounces off the ground earns 1 Star Player point. "

This is the intent ... would this solve the problem???

I'm double checking with Chet that I've got this right ... but I 99% sure I've discussed this before with BBRC members. You test when its thrown and you test when its comes to rest and the stuff inbetween is irrelevant. I'll let you know if Chet tells me I've got it wrong or right. If he says wrong .... more work for me to do on the PBeM tool I guess.

Galak

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Tue Apr 22, 2003 7:10 pm

i agree with galak

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Tue Apr 22, 2003 7:30 pm

Chet confirmed ... for determining a completion:

You test when its thrown and you test when its comes to rest and the stuff inbetween is irrelevant.

That's the rule ... as I said ... over the weekend when I update the Hot List I'll add it in.

Galak

Agentrock · Post by **Agentrock** » Tue Apr 22, 2003 7:31 pm

Thanks for the clarification!