Foul Appearance and Dump Off

[Loki]

As this is still open, how do you get around...
When I declare that I will block you, i don’t want to block you, I want to declare I will block you with the sole intent of triggering DO. How does that sit with your argument?

[Itchen Masack]

Ignoring Foul Appearance as per the rules, how does dump off work vs Ball n Chain?

Is my shroomed-up whirling manic announcing his intention to block, or is no dump off allowed?

[lunchmoney]

Ignoring Foul Appearance as per the rules, how does dump off work vs Ball n Chain?

Is my shroomed-up whirling manic announcing his intention to block, or is no dump off allowed?

FA doesn't stop Ball & Chain
http://talkfantasyfootball.org/viewtopi ... 10&t=39683

[Loki]

Just so I'm clear as we appear to have gone full rules lawyer on this one, I'm in meetings much of the day and can't play as much yesterday and I know you like to split things things up Dode...

1. I say I will Block or Blitz - as you have already said this doesn't trigger DO or FA, its block with a small 'b'
2. BB is full disclosure I know you have DO and FA
3. I declare (with in many cases a 97.2% level of certainty) that I WILL block your player.
4. At this point I have triggered DO
5. I know I MUST block when we get to that part of the sequence as I have declared I WILL block,
6. However, I do not WANT to block your player at this point, only trigger DO at this point
7. You can't say I have to roll FA as I don't WANT to block your player only trigger DO (but I must block at a later date as I have declared).

[Loki]

Ignoring Foul Appearance as per the rules, how does dump off work vs Ball n Chain?

Is my shroomed-up whirling manic announcing his intention to block, or is no dump off allowed?

FA doesn't stop Ball & Chain
http://talkfantasyfootball.org/viewtopi ... 10&t=39683

That's what he is saying ignore FA as B&C says ignore it

[Itchen Masack]

(Not wanting to start a new thread over a slightly related curiosity) is the following part of LRB6 incorrectly worded? From the rr section

Note that you can’t ‘go back’ in time and use a skill or re-roll to
affect an earlier Action. For example, if a player was blitzing, you
couldn’t have him throw a block, move a couple of squares, and
then say “Actually, I think I’ll use my Pro skill to re-roll that block.”
– the skill or re-roll must be used directly before or after the
event it will affect or not at all.


I ask as the distinction between a 'block' and 'Block Action' has long been accepted but the quote above uses the term 'Action' to describe a 'block' during the current 'Blitz Action'?

[Loki]

Hmmm, so in parallel.

By your argument you trigger FA when you *want* - so in our example I just ‘jumped’ straight past leap (:D). My wardancer is blitzing your skaven thrower I have to leap into the cage, can I therefore roll the FA before the Leap role – I know I want to block before I make the Leap. You can take this logically further back, a player has to dodge through tackle zones, can you roll the FA at the at the start of an Action because you want to before you have to do other (more risky) rolls.

I would always have said that you have to be in the position to do the block but your reading of want opens up another avenue.

This only becomes an issue if you are 'unlocking' the FA from the 'blocking mechanic' if FA is part of 'blocking' as a 'train of things' then I can't role FA 1st then do my dodges or leaping then do my 'blocking' but if you are unlocking FA from blocking so that the FA can happen before the DO then its all up for grabs.

[sann0638]

I start each defensive drive wanting to block your ball carrier. Let's just roll FA at the beginning of the drive, get it out of the way!

[Itchen Masack]

Ah balls, just when i was happy with the Blood Bowl: Indian in the Cupboard rule set, I went and read the 2nd half of the Dump Off Skill, the bit that wasn't quoted for whatever reason.

"After the throw is worked out your opponent completes the block, and then carries on with his turn"

Turn, not Action. Each player performs an Action. The Coach gets the Turn. So it seems I AM the one controlling the players after all, and they don't have their own emotions or ability to chat to the opposing players. No fun

So with great regret I'm going to have to go back to my original standpoint, that the player doesnt Want anything until i actively tell him to, and I've for sure declared he will block.

1. The Opponent has declared the block - Dump Off active - Tick
2. The Player Wants to block - Foul Appearance active - Tick
3. Opponent rolls Double Skulls

[harvestmouse]

How about looking at it from another angle? Not what is written, but the intent. Or what would happen in a real (fantasy real) life situation. The blocker comes in, goes to block the player and..........

What would happen next? Would the FA or DO trigger first?

What's the FA's radius compared to the players 'bottle' for holding onto the ball until the very last second?

How confident is the player in passing off the ball under extreme pressure? How much of an affect does his FA infliction have on his ability to dump the ball off?

All these things have to be taken into account before coming up with an answer. Of course, this is too much to write in a rulebook (unless we want a book the size of a house).

So, thinking a long these lines.............I reckon that the FA would trigger before the DO (reasoning that you need an immense amount of bottle to enter the Blood Bowl field in the first place; it's only logical that the player would hold the ball long enough for the FA to trigger before his/her (poor girl) bottle gave out).

Thinking about it further; maybe it's not as simple as I laid out about. I didn't take into account that different players have different 'bottle' levels. For example a Norse Ulfwererwernererer has a different bottle level to that of a Hobgoblin (not that either can take FA). So where the Norseman would wait for the FA to kick in; I very much doubt the Hobgob would.

I think we need 2 lists. A list of players with the bottle to wait for the FA to kick in (the vast majority in my opinion). And a list of players that wouldn't wait, and try to dump the ball off as quickly as possible, in the hope that the charging player goes after the ball instead (off the top of my head goblinoids, skaven, elves?).

So I think this rule has a big effect on Underworld at this point.

[Darkson]

My players never want to do anything, they know they will do it*, so your FA is wasted.

*Admittedly not always successfully.

[Loki]

My players also never want to do anything, I'm fairly confident they will never do anything. They're just lazy gits.

[lunchmoney]

So we've establish that if my player doesn't want to block the FA then I, the coach, do not have to roll the dice?

[Danny]

If we’re saying that wanting to block isn’t the same as declaring a block, that would mean a player could take a FA test, and if you fail then take another test in another FA player, or move blitz, pass etc!?

[Jip]

This thread is insane whataboutery, how the hell has it stumbled on for six (so far) bloody pages?!

Also, Itchen’s comments are not permissible as evidence; having played his Nurgle team, my Foul Appearance rolls failed every time, so he’s clearly in league with the Devil (or at least Papa Nurgle himself)!