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Apothecary and players already in the KO'd dugout
Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2016 3:30 pm
by Garrick
I saw a new use for an Apothecary recently: returning a player from the KO'd dugout to the Reserves box (several turns after that player had been KO'd). I checked the rules:
"During a match, an Apothecary may attempt to cure a player who has suffered a Casualty or been KO'd. An Apothecary can be used only once per match. If the player was KO'd leave him on the pitch Stunned, or, if he was not on the pitch, put him in the Reserves box."
Which appears to allow the "new use" referred to above. If this is allowed then can you do this immediately after you have rolled to see who moves normally from the KO'd dugout to the Reserves box and use it on a player who has failed to get the 4+ guaranteeing that important player returns to the match?
I couldn't find any reference to this in previous threads, apologies if there are.
Re: Apothecary and players already in the KO'd dugout
Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2016 3:40 pm
by Regash
I'm a bit confused by the "may attempt" part.
It sounds like you can't just put the player from KO'd to Reserves but some kind of dice rolling have to be involved, hence "attempt".
I couldn't find anything but the usual "reroll the injury roll".
Would you really risk to have him being killed after being out cold, just because he didn't make his recovery roll?
Or am I missing/mistaking smething?
Re: Apothecary and players already in the KO'd dugout
Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2016 5:14 pm
by Darkson
It has to be immediately the KO is received ( either on the pitch, crowd push or if a B&C is injured), not turns later.
Re: Apothecary and players already in the KO'd dugout
Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2016 5:25 pm
by Shushnik
Darkson wrote:It has to be immediately the KO is received ( either on the pitch, crowd push or if a B&C is injured), not turns later.
Upon what do you base that interpretation?
Re: Apothecary and players already in the KO'd dugout
Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2016 6:44 pm
by Regash
CRP wrote:Apothecary
An Apothecary is a healer wise in the ways of medicine and the healing arts who looks after the injured players in a Blood Bowl team – and so has a strenuous and full-time job! It costs 50,000 gold pieces to purchase an Apothecary to permanently look after your team during a match. He may be represented by an appropriate Citadel miniature if you wish. A team may not have more than one purchased Apothecary. Khemri, Necromantic, Nurgle and Undead teams may not purchase or use an Apothecary.
During a match, an Apothecary may attempt to cure a player who has suffered a Casualty or been KO’d. An Apothecary can be used only once per match. If the player was KO’d leave him on the pitch Stunned, or, if he was not on the pitch, put him in the Reserves box. Otherwise immediately after the player suffers the Casualty, you can use the Apothecary to make your opponent roll again on the Casualty table (see page 25) and then you choose which of the two results to apply. If the player is only Badly Hurt after this roll (even if it was the original Casualty roll) the Apothecary has managed to patch him up and pump him full of painkillers so that the player may be moved into the Reserves box.
The above is the complete text about Apothecaries on page 17 in the rulebook.
I marked some text in red that suggests that you actually can use the Apothecary in ways we weren't aware of.
"if he was not on the pitch" suggests that you actually can use the apo to patch up a KO'd player to get him back on his feet. And the "if the player was KO'd" part suggest that you simply leave him on the pitch without rolling any dice.
GALAK! We need your expertise here!
Re: Apothecary and players already in the KO'd dugout
Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2016 6:58 pm
by sirsebstar
I think the KO in the reserves refer to the ball and chain because it can never be stunned and therefor is no longer on the pitch
Re: Apothecary and players already in the KO'd dugout
Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2016 7:21 pm
by GalakStarscraper
It has to be used immediately ... thus the text ... "If the player was KO’d leave him on the pitch Stunned, or, if he was not on the pitch, put him in the Reserves box."
Could not be left on the pitch if not used immediately.
As for the if not on the pitch put him in the Reserves box deals with players that are injured by crowd pushes as they are no longer on the pitch.
Galak
Re: Apothecary and players already in the KO'd dugout
Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2016 7:28 pm
by Shushnik
GalakStarscraper wrote:It has to be used immediately ... thus the text ... "If the player was KO’d leave him on the pitch Stunned, or, if he was not on the pitch, put him in the Reserves box."
Could not be left on the pitch if not used immediately.
As for the if not on the pitch put him in the Reserves box deals with players that are injured by crowd pushes as they are no longer on the pitch.
Galak
The rules in no way explicitly state it must be used immediately. A player in the KO box was KO'd at some point, fulfilling the letter of the rule.
I think it was almost certainly intended to be immediate use only, but in the case of a KO that is not directly stated.
Re: Apothecary and players already in the KO'd dugout
Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2016 7:32 pm
by dode74
Shushnik wrote:The rules in no way explicitly state it must be used immediately. A player in the KO box was KO'd at some point, fulfilling the letter of the rule.
I think it was almost certainly intended to be immediate use only, but in the case of a KO that is not directly stated.
You've just had it clarified by one of the people who wrote the rulebook.
Re: Apothecary and players already in the KO'd dugout
Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2016 7:41 pm
by Pipey
Interesting spot, Garrick.
Seems it could've been worded more clearly e.g. use it immediately after an injury or KO.
I'm happy with Galak's clarification.
Re: Apothecary and players already in the KO'd dugout
Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2016 9:04 pm
by Garrick
The wording does suggest the "new use" is legal despite clarification by one of the authors.
And it adds an extra / interesting dimension to the use of an Apothecary.
I wonder if Galak would reconsider his clarification considering both of these points?
Re: Apothecary and players already in the KO'd dugout
Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 12:22 am
by Shushnik
dode74 wrote:Shushnik wrote:The rules in no way explicitly state it must be used immediately. A player in the KO box was KO'd at some point, fulfilling the letter of the rule.
I think it was almost certainly intended to be immediate use only, but in the case of a KO that is not directly stated.
You've just had it clarified by one of the people who wrote the rulebook.
So? The fact remains that the rule book doesn't state one way or the other. There's nothing to clarify.
Re: Apothecary and players already in the KO'd dugout
Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 1:55 am
by Digger Goreman
Shushnik wrote:dode74 wrote:Shushnik wrote:The rules in no way explicitly state it must be used immediately. A player in the KO box was KO'd at some point, fulfilling the letter of the rule.
I think it was almost certainly intended to be immediate use only, but in the case of a KO that is not directly stated.
You've just had it clarified by one of the people who wrote the rulebook.
So? The fact remains that the rule book doesn't state one way or the other. There's nothing to clarify.
“You are entitled to your opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts.” ―Daniel Patrick Moynihan.
Re: Apothecary and players already in the KO'd dugout
Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 2:46 am
by Darkson
If someone tried what Garrick posted on me at a tournament I'd be calling for TO to rule, and if called on as a TO to rule I'd be disallowing it, based on Galak above (and I think this has been questioned and clarified before, but searching on the phone sucks!).
Re: Apothecary and players already in the KO'd dugout
Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 4:47 am
by Regash
Galaks explanation makes sense.
Immediate use is what I've been doing all the time and I also never met anyone who tried something else.
For me: CASE CLOSED