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 Post subject: Does stunty affect stab injury rolls?
 Post Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 1:13 am 
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Hi Guys,

This question has been heavily debated in this 8 page thread from 2007. However if I remember correctly, that was LRB5, back when stunty was still +1 to the injury roll. That thread specifically mentions modifiers to the injury roll. Stunty no longer modifies the injury roll, so I'm wondering how it works with stab now.

For reference, here are the texts of the two skills. Emphasis mine.

GW Competition Rules wrote:
Stab (Extraordinary)
A player with this skill is armed with something very good at stabbing, slashing or hacking up an opponent, like sharp fangs or a trusty dagger. This player may attack an opponent with his stabbing attack instead of throwing a block. Make an unmodified Armour roll (except for stakes) for the victim. If the score is less than or equal to the victim's Armour value then the attack has no effect. If the score beats the victim's Armour value then he has been wounded and an Injury roll must be made. This injury roll ignore all modifiers from any source - including Niggling injuries. If stab is used as part of a Blitz Action, the player cannot continue moving after using it. Casualties caused by a stabbing attack do not count for Star Player points.


GW Competition Rules wrote:
Stunty (Extraordinary)
The player is so small that they are very difficult to tackle because they can duck underneath opposing players' outstretched arms and run between their legs. On the other hand, Stunty players are just a bit too small to throw the ball very well, and are easily injured. To represent these things a player with the Stunty skill may ignore any enemy tackle zones on the square he is moving to when he makes a Dodge roll (i.e. they always end up with a +1 Dodge roll modifier), but must subtract 1 from the roll when he passes. In addition, this player treats a roll of 7 and 9 on the injury table after any modifiers have been applied as a KO'd and Badly Hurt result respectively, rather than the normal results. Stunties that are armed with a Secret Weapon are not allowed to ignore enemy tackle zones, but still suffer the other penalties.



So stab says no modifiers. Thats fine.

Stunty says that after all modifiers (of which there can't be any), you treat a 7 as KO, and 9 as Badly Hurt.

So by my reading, you can't have any modifiers to the roll, then after applying that, if you've got a 9, it's a badly hurt?


The reason I'm asking for opinions on this is that it came up at a tournament recently, and the only clarifications I can find on here is from back when stunty was a +1 to the injury roll, which is quite different to how it reads now.

So, opinions. Stunty affects stab rolls? Or not?

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 Post subject: Re: Does stunty affect stab injury rolls?
 Post Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 3:56 am 
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Stunty
2-6 stunned
7-8 Koed
9 BH
10-12 injured roll on table

Modifiers to injury
Mighty Blow +1

Stab is a straight up armor roll
Stab is a normal injury roll with the normal (stunty) results (see above)
If a player had a niggling injury that would NOT be factory into the injury roll

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 Post subject: Re: Does stunty affect stab injury rolls?
 Post Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 4:07 am 
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I think the reason for re-wording the rule as it now stands is to remove modifiers from Stunty injuries. So daloonieshaman's answer appears correct.

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 Post subject: Re: Does stunty affect stab injury rolls?
 Post Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 4:07 am 
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Well, thats two people that agree with me. Tournament folks were playing it differently. I think they were out of date.

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 Post subject: Re: Does stunty affect stab injury rolls?
 Post Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 6:41 am 
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I am a professional Stunty player. (and no you did not hear that from my wife)

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 Post subject: Re: Does stunty affect stab injury rolls?
 Post Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 6:52 am 
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Thick Skull would be in the same boat then. In other words, both skills "create" custom injury tables.


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 Post subject: Re: Does stunty affect stab injury rolls?
 Post Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 7:24 am 
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Steam Ball wrote:
Thick Skull would be in the same boat then. In other words, both skills "create" custom injury tables.

+1

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 Post subject: Re: Does stunty affect stab injury rolls?
 Post Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 7:41 am 
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Stunty with thickskull:
2-6, 8 stunned
7 Koed
9 BH
10-12 injury roll

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 Post subject: Re: Does stunty affect stab injury rolls?
 Post Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 8:46 am 
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Don't know.
I know the BBRC has said the opposite in the past.

IMO a new injury table is also a modifier, even if it isn't a standard one (+1/-1)
So I suspect stabbing might bypass both stunty and thick skull....
Not sure.

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 Post subject: Re: Does stunty affect stab injury rolls?
 Post Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 9:05 am 
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plasmoid wrote:
Don't know.
I know the BBRC has said the opposite in the past.

IMO a new injury table is also a modifier, even if it isn't a standard one (+1/-1)
So I suspect stabbing might bypass both stunty and thick skull....
Not sure.


The stab skill says that the roll ignores modifiers, not that the injury table does.

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 Post subject: Re: Does stunty affect stab injury rolls?
 Post Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 5:17 pm 
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In older versions, stunty was a +1 modifier to the injury roll, in the current rules they did away with that. Similarly thick skull used to be a 1-3 chance to turn KO to stunned.

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 Post subject: Re: Does stunty affect stab injury rolls?
 Post Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 8:02 pm 
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Officially ... Stab was not supposed to be effected by Stunty or Thick Skull. I can see how someone could try to legalese and say that they are not modifying the injury roll ... but be honest ... they do modify the injury roll by creating new results for the injury ... that is by definition a modification.

So yes ... officially as it was written it was meant for Stunty and Thick Skull to not work during a Stab injury roll.

Tom

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 Post subject: Re: Does stunty affect stab injury rolls?
 Post Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 8:38 pm 
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GalakStarscraper wrote:
Officially ... Stab was not supposed to be effected by Stunty or Thick Skull. I can see how someone could try to legalese and say that they are not modifying the injury roll ... but be honest ... they do modify the injury roll by creating new results for the injury ... that is by definition a modification.

So yes ... officially as it was written it was meant for Stunty and Thick Skull to not work during a Stab injury roll.

Tom


Fair enough. That's a philosophical question though, if you are modifying the injury roll or just the effects of it.

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 Post subject: Re: Does stunty affect stab injury rolls?
 Post Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 9:06 pm 
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GalakStarscraper wrote:
Officially ... Stab was not supposed to be effected by Stunty or Thick Skull. I can see how someone could try to legalese and say that they are not modifying the injury roll ... but be honest ... they do modify the injury roll by creating new results for the injury ... that is by definition a modification.

So yes ... officially as it was written it was meant for Stunty and Thick Skull to not work during a Stab injury roll.

Tom

So you are saying for a Stunty v/s stab (regardless of thickskull)
1-7 stunned
8-9 Koed
10+ injury roll

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 Post subject: Re: Does stunty affect stab injury rolls?
 Post Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 9:13 pm 
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daloonieshaman wrote:
GalakStarscraper wrote:
Officially ... Stab was not supposed to be effected by Stunty or Thick Skull. I can see how someone could try to legalese and say that they are not modifying the injury roll ... but be honest ... they do modify the injury roll by creating new results for the injury ... that is by definition a modification.

So yes ... officially as it was written it was meant for Stunty and Thick Skull to not work during a Stab injury roll.

Tom

So you are saying for a Stunty v/s stab (regardless of thickskull)
1-7 stunned
8-9 Koed
10+ injury roll

Correct

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