Ball and Chain question

fire olli · Post by **fire olli** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 9:48 pm

Hi all,

In the rules for ball and chain it says if you get a push back you must follow up. I am not sure if you have to follow up if you knock down the player you are hitting.

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 9:59 pm

The Pow and Pow! are both "pushed back and down", so yes, you have to follow.

khudzlin · Post by **khudzlin** » Thu Jul 02, 2009 12:50 pm

just thought of something: Ball & Chain states the player "must follow up", while Frenzy states the player "must follow up if they can" (emphasis mine) -- does that mean Ball & Chain overrides Fend?

styphon · Post by **styphon** » Thu Jul 02, 2009 1:07 pm

khudzlin wrote:just thought of something: Ball & Chain states the player "must follow up", while Frenzy states the player "must follow up if they can" (emphasis mine) -- does that mean Ball & Chain overrides Fend?

Yes, you can't fend against Ball & Chain.

Digger Goreman · Post by **Digger Goreman** » Thu Jul 02, 2009 1:07 pm

Intuitively, I can see how B&C should override Fend... but... fend is specifically designed NOT to allow followups UNLESS overriden by Juggernaut.... Still... B&C will even push prone and stunned players... while Juggernaut will not....

A real conundrum....

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Thu Jul 02, 2009 1:15 pm

Read this earlier, but decided to mull over my answer over lunch

I'm in the B&C overrides fend camp

how do you realistically fend off someone whirling a big ball and chain around

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Thu Jul 02, 2009 1:22 pm

I agree, though technically it is a grey area.

The only "out" I can see is that the Fend skill states that "Opposing players may not follow-up blocks" - may seems to be used (mostly) for voluntary actions (small a), so it could be read as "Opposing players may not voluntarily follow-up blocks", which would allow B&C to override fend with no problem.

Stretching, I know.

Stout Youngblood · Post by **Stout Youngblood** » Thu Jul 02, 2009 2:33 pm

I would say Fend does prevent the follow up of the Ball & Chain.

Fend: "Opposing players may not follow-up blocks made against this player even if the Fend player is Knocked Down."

The Ball & Chain "If during his Move Action he would move into an occupied square then the player will throw a block following normal blocking rules against whoever is in that square"

Nowhere in the description of Ball & Chain does it state Fend can't be used as in the Juggernaut skill.

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Thu Jul 02, 2009 2:38 pm

deffo one that needs clarification

lerchey · Post by **lerchey** » Thu Jul 02, 2009 2:50 pm

Hm. So, assuming that Fend prevents follow-up by the B&C goblin, if the goblin rolls to move, moves into a Fend players space, blocks and gets a Pow!, since the B&C can't follow-up, does that end his move, or does he start the process over (assuming he still has MA) in the space that he was in when he hit the Fend player?

duckwing · Post by **duckwing** » Thu Jul 02, 2009 3:22 pm

lerchey wrote:Hm. So, assuming that Fend prevents follow-up by the B&C goblin, if the goblin rolls to move, moves into a Fend players space, blocks and gets a Pow!, since the B&C can't follow-up, does that end his move, or does he start the process over (assuming he still has MA) in the space that he was in when he hit the Fend player?

I don't see any reason why this would stop the movement. The rules state he has to use his whole ma, and there's nothing to normally prevent a blitzing player to continue moving after having blocked a player with fend.

Fat_Emrys · Post by **Fat_Emrys** » Thu Jul 02, 2009 3:23 pm

Moving into the square the Fend player was standing in when hit by the b&c as the goblin's next move isn't the same as following up - when the goblin next moves that square will be empty anyway as the Fender will have been pushed back but the B&C won't have been able to follow up.

daloonieshaman · Post by **daloonieshaman** » Thu Jul 02, 2009 11:50 pm

normal skills work against B&C
Fend, SS so on as The Fanatic is throwing a Block (actually several, lol) and subject to all the standard rules of Block (for each one)
He has to move the 3 squares of MA but does not have to GFI (unless he wants to) (I think Fungus has a MA 4??)

Xeterog · Post by **Xeterog** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 4:25 am

even tho the fanatic is blocking, he his not taking a Block Action..he's moving into the square of the target player and as a side effect of that is throwing the block...I don't think fend should work.

khudzlin · Post by **khudzlin** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 5:35 am

fanatics already ignore foul appearance, it wouldn't be much of a stretch to have them ignore fend as well -- we're talking about insane gobbos drugged to the gills and lugging balls and chains, after all