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 Post subject: Stand firm and Bonehead/really stupid
 Post Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 5:34 pm 
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So at the Chimera cup this came up. Troll with Standfirm is also stupid. Neither myself nor Twelfman or indeed Wobert knew how it worked. The initial thoughts of our selves and from Wobert was as it's optional the troll loses the choice. However we didn't know it was just an assumption.

Thoughts? And would this apply to bonehead as well.

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 Post subject: Re: Stand firm and Bonehead/really stupid
 Post Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 6:17 pm 
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Nothing in Stand Firm says the player needs a tackle zone in order to use it.

Quote:
Stand Firm (Strength)
A player with this skill may choose to not be pushed back as the result of
a block. He may choose to ignore being pushed by ‘Pushed’ results, and
to have 'Knock-down' results knock the player down in the square where
he started. If a player is pushed back into a player using Stand Firm then
neither player moves.

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 Post subject: Re: Stand firm and Bonehead/really stupid
 Post Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 8:28 pm 
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A really stupid player with block (or dodge) wouldn't not use it so stand firm is in the same boat for me. Likewise with bonehead.

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 Post subject: Re: Stand firm and Bonehead/really stupid
 Post Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 8:58 pm 
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Why? Where does it say the can't use Block or Dodge?

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 Post subject: Re: Stand firm and Bonehead/really stupid
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 7:04 am 
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fromherashes wrote:
A really stupid player with block (or dodge) wouldn't not use it so stand firm is in the same boat for me. Likewise with bonehead.

As with Stand Firm there is nothing saying they need a tackle zone in order to use those skills

Quote:
Block (General
A player with the Block skill is
proficient at knocking opponents
down. The Block skill, if used,
affects the results rolled with the
Block dice, as explained in the
Blocking rules.

Dodge (Agility)
A player with the Dodge skill is adept at slipping away from opponents,
and is allowed to re-roll the D6 if he fails to dodge out of any of an
opposing player’s tackle zones. However, the player may only re-roll one
failed Dodge roll per turn. In addition, the Dodge skill, if used, affects the
results rolled on the Block dice, as explained in the Blocking rules (see
page 10.)

Quote:
BOTH DOWN: Both players are Knocked Down,
unless one or both of the players involved has the
Block skill. If one player uses the Block skill then
he is not Knocked Down by this result, though his
opponent will still go down. If both the players use
the Block skill then neither player is Knocked
Down.
DEFENDER STUMBLES: Unless the defender
uses the Dodge skill he is pushed back and then
Knocked Down. If he does use the Dodge skill
then he is only pushed back. The attacking player
may follow up the defender.

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 Post subject: Re: Stand firm and Bonehead/really stupid
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:35 am 
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Darkson wrote:
Why? Where does it say the can't use Block or Dodge?
I think you are right.

Bone-head skill description wrote:
Bone-head (Extraordinary)
The player is not noted for his intelligence. Because of this you must roll a D6 immediately after declaring an Action for the player, but before taking the Action. On a roll of 1 he stands around trying to remember what it is he’s meant to be doing. The player can’t do anything for the turn, and the player’s team loses the declared Action for the turn. (So if a Bone-head player declares a Blitz Action and rolls a 1, then the team cannot declare another Blitz Action that turn.) The player loses his tackle zones and may not catch, intercept or pass, assist another player on a block or foul, or voluntarily move until he manages to roll a 2 or better at the start of a future Action or the drive ends.
Really Stupid skill description wrote:
Really Stupid (Extraordinary)
This player is without doubt one of the dimmest creatures to ever take to a Blood Bowl pitch (which, considering the IQ of most other players, is really saying something!). Because of this you must roll a D6 immediately after declaring an Action for the player, but before taking the Action. If there are one or more players from the same team standing adjacent to the Really Stupid player’s quare, and who aren’t Really Stupid, then add 2 to the D6 roll. On a result of 1-3 he stands around trying to remember what it is he’s meant to be doing. The player can’t do anything for the turn, and the player’s team loses the declared Action for that turn (for example, if a Really Stupid player declares a Blitz Action and fails the Really Stupid roll, then the team cannot declare another Blitz Action that turn). The player loses his tackle zones and may not catch, intercept or pass the ball, assist another player on a block or foul, or voluntarily move until he manages to roll a successful
result for a Really Stupid roll at the start of a future Action or the drive ends.
Neither of those says anything about not being able to use skills passively, they only prevent the player from doing something actively.


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 Post subject: Re: Stand firm and Bonehead/really stupid
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 12:16 pm 
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All skills unless otherwise noted are Optional.

I'm with Lunch and Darkson - a Bonehead, Stupid, Gazed, etc player still gets to use Stand Firm.

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 Post subject: Re: Stand firm and Bonehead/really stupid
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 2:48 pm 
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Bizarrely you all misread my post.

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 Post subject: Re: Stand firm and Bonehead/really stupid
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 3:11 pm 
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Double negative.

Wouldn't not.

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 Post subject: Re: Stand firm and Bonehead/really stupid
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 3:19 pm 
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fire olli wrote:
Double negative.

Wouldn't not.


Exactly.

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 Post subject: Re: Stand firm and Bonehead/really stupid
 Post Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:08 am 
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Couldn't you actually make an argument for the reverse?

A Troll with Stand Firm who is currently Stupid gets blocked, and Push is the result. Suppose they wish not to use Stand Firm and get pushed back, could this technically be argued as "voluntarily moving", and so be disallowed? So in fact, use of Stand Firm becomes mandatory when under the effects of Really Stupid etc.

:)

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 Post subject: Re: Stand firm and Bonehead/really stupid
 Post Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 4:33 am 
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You could make that argument, but you'd be wrong and should feel wrong. Voluntarily moving is not the same as voluntarily allowing yourself to be moved..


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 Post subject: Re: Stand firm and Bonehead/really stupid
 Post Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 4:58 am 
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What's the difference - your opponent chooses the destination? Because you're not really choosing the destination with Shadowing either, and that's specifically disallowed.

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 Post subject: Re: Stand firm and Bonehead/really stupid
 Post Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:10 am 
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The difference is that it wasn't your decision that a move is initiated.
Your opponent blocked and pushed you.
Voluntariy movement is not being pushed, in my opinon.


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