My dictionary lists more definitions than that but I think you're right. When Jerry Maguire says "You complete me", he doesn't mean "You were there when I was conceived"!CyberedElf wrote:It only seems ambiguous because people are confusing "complete" used as an adjective vs "complete" used as a verb...Verb use is about the ending not the entirety.verb wrote:finish making or doing.
BB2016 Rules - Seasons Completed start at zero or one?
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Re: BB2016 Rules - Seasons Completed start at zero or one?
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Re: BB2016 Rules - Seasons Completed start at zero or one?
I don't understand how it "depends on the subject." All three examples you used have "completed" used as a verb. If the last phrase was "Completed Seasons," it could be ambiguous, but they appear to have actually written it consistently.dode74 wrote:Depends on the subject, I think. Does it mean "seasons that player has completed" or "seasons which have been completed". The incomplete phrase "Seasons Completed" leaves that ambiguous.
I admit, when looking at all the new GW stuff, my following argument is very shaky. IMO it is a smaller mistake to tell us to do something insignificant, than to not tell us to do something significant. I expect the smaller mistake, but . . .siggyllama wrote:Why roll for a player more than once, ever, unless that box gets reset? That's where the ambiguity arises.
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Re: BB2016 Rules - Seasons Completed start at zero or one?
Because you could be counting either complete seasons the player has played or seasons the player has played in which have been completed. Playing the last few matches of a season would qualify for the latter but not the former.
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Re: BB2016 Rules - Seasons Completed start at zero or one?
"completed seasons" does not equal "seasons completed"dode74 wrote:Because you could be counting either complete seasons the player has played or seasons the player has played in which have been completed. Playing the last few matches of a season would qualify for the latter but not the former.
You gave one example of an adjective and one example as a verb. That is ambiguous. Every example I have seen, from the books, it has always been a verb.
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Re: BB2016 Rules - Seasons Completed start at zero or one?
If the rules, as written, require someone to pull the dictionary off the shelf, can we all agree that they aren't written with enough clarity?
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Re: BB2016 Rules - Seasons Completed start at zero or one?
I'm saying "Completed Seasons" could mean either [the number of completed seasons the player has played in] or, just like a "TD Scored" statistic would be [the number of TDs scored by the player], "Completed Seasons" could be [the number of seasons completed by the player]. It's ambiguous in its wording.CyberedElf wrote:"completed seasons" does not equal "seasons completed"
You gave one example of an adjective and one example as a verb. That is ambiguous. Every example I have seen, from the books, it has always been a verb.
siggy - true!
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Re: BB2016 Rules - Seasons Completed start at zero or one?
Dode, please find a location in the book where "completed" is used as an adjective in relation to the season or quit using it as an adjective in your argument.dode74 wrote:I'm saying "Completed Seasons" could mean either [the number of completed seasons the player has played in] or, just like a "TD Scored" statistic would be [the number of TDs scored by the player], "Completed Seasons" could be [the number of seasons completed by the player]. It's ambiguous in its wording.
It doesn't matter if "Completed Seasons" is ambiguous. That is not what the book says. The book says "Seasons Completed." Just like "TD Scored" it is <noun> <verb>. To be more particular, "completed" is only properly used as a verb. ("Complete" can be either a verb or adjective.) As a verb it has particular definitions when used in English. If you are saying it is ambiguous because you are using a non-English definition, then please clarify the reason for that assumption.
I agree that just the fact that the question is asked, and not quickly resolved, is proof that it could have been more clear.
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Re: BB2016 Rules - Seasons Completed start at zero or one?
^This.^siggyllama wrote:If the rules, as written, require someone to pull the dictionary off the shelf, can we all agree that they aren't written with enough clarity?
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Re: BB2016 Rules - Seasons Completed start at zero or one?
Cyberdelf - seasons completed or completed seasons, potato potahto. Ultimately the question is whether what matters is whether we are counting the number of seasons which have been completed by the player, or the number of seasons which have been completed which the player has taken part in. It's not clear at all.
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Re: BB2016 Rules - Seasons Completed start at zero or one?
To summarize:
I use a definition that can be found in a dictionary, and its use makes the rules clear.
You use a second definition that can not be found in a dictionary, and its use makes things unclear.
You may still have a problem, but I don't.
I use a definition that can be found in a dictionary, and its use makes the rules clear.
You use a second definition that can not be found in a dictionary, and its use makes things unclear.
You may still have a problem, but I don't.
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Re: BB2016 Rules - Seasons Completed start at zero or one?
Anybody dealing with a rules after Icepelt, has a problem....
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Re: BB2016 Rules - Seasons Completed start at zero or one?
What? Of course it is in a dictionary! Completed means completed (to paraphrase Theresa May), but it is what is being completed, individual seasons or seasons with reference to that player, which is at question. Meaning is, as ever, a matter of context.CyberedElf wrote:To summarize:
I use a definition that can be found in a dictionary, and its use makes the rules clear.
You use a second definition that can not be found in a dictionary, and its use makes things unclear.
You may still have a problem, but I don't.
Your definition may be clear, but it is backed only by assumption. The fact remains it is ambiguously written, which is the only point I am making.
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Re: BB2016 Rules - Seasons Completed start at zero or one?
Dode, what definition of "completed" are you actually using? I'm using "finished making or doing," like I quoted earlier. Using that definition, I get the same meaning from both halves of your examples.
Just for the record, there is another definition of completed, "made whole." First, I will point back to the Jerry Macquire quote. Second, that meaning would obviously be out of context because the player can not make the season whole. The season would be whole whether the player was there or not.
The player finished doing the exact same number of seasons as the number of seasons which have been finished which the player has taken part in.dode74 wrote:Ultimately the question is whether what matters is whether we are counting the number of seasons which have been completed by the player, or the number of seasons which have been completed which the player has taken part in.
Again, the number of finished seasons the player played in is the same as the number of seasons finished by the player.dode74 wrote:I'm saying "Completed Seasons" could mean either [the number of completed seasons the player has played in] or . . . "Completed Seasons" could be [the number of seasons completed by the player].
My definition is backed by a dictionary. But, what assumptions do you think I am making exactly? And why do you think they are false?dode74 wrote:Your definition may be clear, but it is backed only by assumption.
Tread carefully, I am pretty sure you are stating an opinion. If you want to prove that your statement is an objective fact, I'll get the popcorn ready.dode74 wrote:The fact remains it is ambiguously written
Just for the record, there is another definition of completed, "made whole." First, I will point back to the Jerry Macquire quote. Second, that meaning would obviously be out of context because the player can not make the season whole. The season would be whole whether the player was there or not.
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Re: BB2016 Rules - Seasons Completed start at zero or one?
Complete seasons vs completed seasons?
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Re: BB2016 Rules - Seasons Completed start at zero or one?
Completed = finished or made whole.Dode, what definition of "completed" are you actually using? I'm using "finished making or doing," like I quoted earlier. Using that definition, I get the same meaning from both halves of your examples.
Has he completed one season when he has played one whole season of games (e.g. 14), or has he completed a season at the point in time at which the season is finished?
There would be no count if the player was not there. Which is part of the point regarding the ambiguity: it is a count which requires the player's existence, not a count of seasons alone.The season would be whole whether the player was there or not.
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