BB2016 Rules - Seasons Completed start at zero or one?

[siggyllama]

It only seems ambiguous because people are confusing "complete" used as an adjective vs "complete" used as a verb...

finish making or doing.

Verb use is about the ending not the entirety.

My dictionary lists more definitions than that but I think you're right. When Jerry Maguire says "You complete me", he doesn't mean "You were there when I was conceived"!

[CyberedElf]

Depends on the subject, I think. Does it mean "seasons that player has completed" or "seasons which have been completed". The incomplete phrase "Seasons Completed" leaves that ambiguous.

I don't understand how it "depends on the subject." All three examples you used have "completed" used as a verb. If the last phrase was "Completed Seasons," it could be ambiguous, but they appear to have actually written it consistently.

Why roll for a player more than once, ever, unless that box gets reset? That's where the ambiguity arises.

I admit, when looking at all the new GW stuff, my following argument is very shaky. IMO it is a smaller mistake to tell us to do something insignificant, than to not tell us to do something significant. I expect the smaller mistake, but . . .

[dode74]

Because you could be counting either complete seasons the player has played or seasons the player has played in which have been completed. Playing the last few matches of a season would qualify for the latter but not the former.

[CyberedElf]

Because you could be counting either complete seasons the player has played or seasons the player has played in which have been completed. Playing the last few matches of a season would qualify for the latter but not the former.

"completed seasons" does not equal "seasons completed"
You gave one example of an adjective and one example as a verb. That is ambiguous. Every example I have seen, from the books, it has always been a verb.

[siggyllama]

If the rules, as written, require someone to pull the dictionary off the shelf, can we all agree that they aren't written with enough clarity?

[dode74]

"completed seasons" does not equal "seasons completed"
You gave one example of an adjective and one example as a verb. That is ambiguous. Every example I have seen, from the books, it has always been a verb.

I'm saying "Completed Seasons" could mean either [the number of completed seasons the player has played in] or, just like a "TD Scored" statistic would be [the number of TDs scored by the player], "Completed Seasons" could be [the number of seasons completed by the player]. It's ambiguous in its wording.

siggy - true!

[CyberedElf]

I'm saying "Completed Seasons" could mean either [the number of completed seasons the player has played in] or, just like a "TD Scored" statistic would be [the number of TDs scored by the player], "Completed Seasons" could be [the number of seasons completed by the player]. It's ambiguous in its wording.

Dode, please find a location in the book where "completed" is used as an adjective in relation to the season or quit using it as an adjective in your argument.

It doesn't matter if "Completed Seasons" is ambiguous. That is not what the book says. The book says "Seasons Completed." Just like "TD Scored" it is <noun> <verb>. To be more particular, "completed" is only properly used as a verb. ("Complete" can be either a verb or adjective.) As a verb it has particular definitions when used in English. If you are saying it is ambiguous because you are using a non-English definition, then please clarify the reason for that assumption.

I agree that just the fact that the question is asked, and not quickly resolved, is proof that it could have been more clear.

[Darkson]

If the rules, as written, require someone to pull the dictionary off the shelf, can we all agree that they aren't written with enough clarity?

^This.^

[dode74]

Cyberdelf - seasons completed or completed seasons, potato potahto. Ultimately the question is whether what matters is whether we are counting the number of seasons which have been completed by the player, or the number of seasons which have been completed which the player has taken part in. It's not clear at all.

[CyberedElf]

To summarize:
I use a definition that can be found in a dictionary, and its use makes the rules clear.
You use a second definition that can not be found in a dictionary, and its use makes things unclear.

You may still have a problem, but I don't.

[Digger Goreman]

Anybody dealing with a rules after Icepelt, has a problem....

[dode74]

To summarize:
I use a definition that can be found in a dictionary, and its use makes the rules clear.
You use a second definition that can not be found in a dictionary, and its use makes things unclear.

You may still have a problem, but I don't.

What? Of course it is in a dictionary! Completed means completed (to paraphrase Theresa May), but it is what is being completed, individual seasons or seasons with reference to that player, which is at question. Meaning is, as ever, a matter of context.

Your definition may be clear, but it is backed only by assumption. The fact remains it is ambiguously written, which is the only point I am making.

[CyberedElf]

Dode, what definition of "completed" are you actually using? I'm using "finished making or doing," like I quoted earlier. Using that definition, I get the same meaning from both halves of your examples.

Ultimately the question is whether what matters is whether we are counting the number of seasons which have been completed by the player, or the number of seasons which have been completed which the player has taken part in.

The player finished doing the exact same number of seasons as the number of seasons which have been finished which the player has taken part in.

I'm saying "Completed Seasons" could mean either [the number of completed seasons the player has played in] or . . . "Completed Seasons" could be [the number of seasons completed by the player].

Again, the number of finished seasons the player played in is the same as the number of seasons finished by the player.

Your definition may be clear, but it is backed only by assumption.

My definition is backed by a dictionary. But, what assumptions do you think I am making exactly? And why do you think they are false?

The fact remains it is ambiguously written

Tread carefully, I am pretty sure you are stating an opinion. If you want to prove that your statement is an objective fact, I'll get the popcorn ready.

Just for the record, there is another definition of completed, "made whole." First, I will point back to the Jerry Macquire quote. Second, that meaning would obviously be out of context because the player can not make the season whole. The season would be whole whether the player was there or not.

[Steam Ball]

Complete seasons vs completed seasons?

[dode74]

Dode, what definition of "completed" are you actually using? I'm using "finished making or doing," like I quoted earlier. Using that definition, I get the same meaning from both halves of your examples.

Completed = finished or made whole.
Has he completed one season when he has played one whole season of games (e.g. 14), or has he completed a season at the point in time at which the season is finished?

The season would be whole whether the player was there or not.

There would be no count if the player was not there. Which is part of the point regarding the ambiguity: it is a count which requires the player's existence, not a count of seasons alone.