Pass Block vs. Dump Off

Da Scum · Post by **Da Scum** » Mon Mar 03, 2003 12:15 am

Here's a good one for everyone out there.

A player on the Blitz declares a block on a player with the ball. The player with the ball has Dump Off and declares it before the die is cast, now what? Does the Pass Blocker now get to move again, aborting the block? Is the the block resolved, then the Pass Blocker moved to try and stop the throw? Is the Pass Blocker, being the one throwing the block, committed to the block and hence not allowed to try a Pass Block?

Solution we did was "Being committed to the attack, and since that attack is not resolved until the Block dice are thrown, the pass goes off, then the block, with the Pass Blocker doing the block therefore unable to move as they are committed to an action that is unresolved."

Zombie · Post by **Zombie** » Mon Mar 03, 2003 12:44 am

I would rule that he can use pass block (he's allowed to use his skill after all) and loses his block (and his whole action). If the pass block move brings him next to another player, then he'll have to block that one after the throw is resolved to try and complete his block action.

Da Scum · Post by **Da Scum** » Mon Mar 03, 2003 1:21 am

There's a problem with that, the Dump-Off is activated by the Block being made by the Pass Blocker. If there is no Block, then there is no Dump-Off, and the Pass made by the Dump-Off is before the Block is thrown. And Dump-Off clearly notes that the Block is then made AFTER the pass, this needs the player who is throwing the block to be there.

The solution the TBBF made seemed to follow far more logical sense, otherwise I can see a TARDIS being required to complete the play.

sean newboy · Post by **sean newboy** » Mon Mar 03, 2003 1:58 am

Related question, can u dump off after the 1st frenzy block and before the 2nd one?

Zombie · Post by **Zombie** » Mon Mar 03, 2003 3:29 am

I don't see why not.

Da Scum · Post by **Da Scum** » Mon Mar 03, 2003 3:43 am

Sure, that makes sense. As the sequence would go as follows:

The Player with Frenzy declares his block against the player with Dump-Off and the ball. At that moment the player with the ball has the choice of declaring the Dump-Off, at which point the Pass is made, followed by the one/two punch of the attacker. However, the player with Dump-Off can choose not to declare on the first block attempt. If the attack then succeeds, then they are not allowed to Dump-Off. If it fails in such a way that the attacking player with Frenzy is capable of making his second attack, then the Dump-Off player again has the choice of making a pass before the second attack goes through.

Sometimes the rule book is clear enough to picture it, othertimes I must admit it takes a bit of visualization to see how it works.

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Mon Mar 03, 2003 10:00 am

I don't have a problem with Pass Blockers being aloud to move because you don't have to dump off. Take the hit! It makes PB a little bit better.

Da Scum · Post by **Da Scum** » Thu Mar 13, 2003 2:57 am

...the problem is where's the block that caused the dump-off in the first place, which is rolled after the dump-off is resolved?

If the player suddenly moves, he can't be throwing a block, which is required to activate dump-off in the first place, and which dump-off itself states is thrown after the dump-off is resolved.

It's right out of Rugby, the player is so committed in ripping his opponent's face off that they are a little pre-occupied to notice as they brush the gore off that the ball is no longer there to be found amoungst the entrails.

Pass Block is a good skill as is, it doesn't need to violate the laws of physics to do so...

My two squigs worth

Balrog · Post by **Balrog** » Thu Mar 13, 2003 8:09 am

Da Scum wrote:...the problem is where's the block that caused the dump-off in the first place, which is rolled after the dump-off is resolved?

As commish I would roll that the player performing the Block may not use his Pass Block skill as he is already in the midst of doing an action. This saves a bunch of headaches, such as:

Player 1: Pass Block
Player 2: Dump Off, Diving Tackle

Player 1 blitzes Player 2, who uses Dump Off. Player 1 responds by using Pass Block to try for an interception. Player 1 must dodge away from Player 2, but Player 2 uses Diving Tackle to stop the dodge. Now we have a prone player blocking another prone player who is also performing a pass... it's just too silly.

Keep it simple and it'll make everyone's lives easier.

-Balrog

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Sun Mar 16, 2003 6:32 am

I would still allow the pass block player a chance to intercept the ball, which ever direction it is dumoed off.

Da Scum · Post by **Da Scum** » Mon Mar 17, 2003 1:21 am

Well sure, if he's in line to actually catch it. Of course this can lead to the wierd situation of him catching the ball, making the block, blowing the block and then dropping the ball and that is a WHOLE load of arguements. As now he's caused a turnover to immediately start his player's turn...I think...AUG!

Having it stick to actual physics of Rugby solves the problem...except in the above mentioned situation, in which case it would have to be ruled if it was ever a real turn-over, and for which team.

Besides, it would look wierd him throwing a block when he's not even standing next to the player he's required to block. It's as silly as slipping on the ice with no one checking you...

aristodeimos · Post by **aristodeimos** » Thu Mar 20, 2003 8:36 pm

I would agree with Balrog on this one. He should not be allowed to use Pass Block during mid-blitz. Keep it simple.