Two- square end zones?????

DaFrenchCoach · Post by **DaFrenchCoach** » Wed Apr 03, 2002 3:03 pm

Lucien: maybe offside rules will be hard to make, if you consider Blood Bowl is a per tour game... To my mind, offsides requires a "Real Time" game (simultaneous game)

Post by **Thadrin** » Wed Apr 03, 2002 3:13 pm

Why does the name "Lineker" suddenly come jogging into view...and an image of a smug big eared git clutching a bag of crisps....

Hmmmmmm....

Lucien Swift · Post by **Lucien Swift** » Wed Apr 03, 2002 3:24 pm

On 2002-04-03 16:03, DaFrenchCoach wrote:
Lucien: maybe offside rules will be hard to make, if you consider Blood Bowl is a per tour game... To my mind, offsides requires a "Real Time" game (simultaneous game)

the mechanics are beside the point... where there's a will, there's a way, especially with hairbrained reactionary rules (yeah, i know, glass houses, yadda yadda)... point is just that it hasn't been _brought up_

i think the real reason it wouldn't work in bb is because, as an american football simulation (well, sort of), the essence of offensive play is that a putz without the ball is going to go downfield and some schmuck in the backfield is going to chuck him the rock... the offsides rule as we know it in games like hockey and soccer just doesn't have a home in this game...

...but, were cherry picking a "problem" there'd be hemming and hawing about it...

as far as mechanics go, it'd be easy to put it in the game, just make it a turnover for a player without the ball to cross an arbitrary stripe on the field... it's the defender's job to notice and call it... what a cruddy game that would be...

DaFrenchCoach · Post by **DaFrenchCoach** » Wed Apr 03, 2002 3:38 pm

Agree with you Lucien on the difference between football and soccer...

I still think it should completely change the game. Let's imagine a catcher without the ball... coach 1 would have 2 possibilities: block it, or place it in an offside situation... But the coach 1 can't ask for a turnover in the same turn... due to the fact it should become easy for a defender to protect with it its most weak players, which are often the fastest (ie: I would place my gunner runner 6 cases around the start zone, wait Black Orcs walks in order to block my gunner runner... on the next turn, I will run, and call for an illegal procedure, due to the fact the black orc is without the ball... Not sure to be clear).

Now, it's coach 2 turn. He has 2 possibilities: placing his catcher in a non-offside position, or trying to catch the ball, if he can, and score a touchdown. We could say that at the end of his turn, if the catcher is still in an offside position (ie no Coach 1 minis between touchdown line and the Coach 2 catcher, in my example), coach 1 could ask for an illegal procedure...

Tha's what you mean lucien, or not ?

Lucien Swift · Post by **Lucien Swift** » Wed Apr 03, 2002 3:47 pm

you're right that a soccer-style offsides, where the player need only be behind the defenders without the ball, and where there is the potential for an offsides trap play, is very much beyond the mechanics of bloodbowl and simply wouldn't work... however, a hockey style offsides, where a violation is simply being over the blue line (or in the case of bb any arbitrar row of choice) without the puck (or the ball) when the player in possession goes over is an offside play... for the rule to work, you'd have to have this defined point at which you went offsides, not just have the player get behind the defenders...

you know, if we ramble about this long enough, we might inspire someone to think it's a good idea...

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Lucien Swift on 2002-04-03 16:48 ]</font>

DaFrenchCoach · Post by **DaFrenchCoach** » Wed Apr 03, 2002 3:54 pm

I must admit Lucien the offside rules in hockey wasn't clear for me... Due to the fact this game is less popular (and so less explained) than in USA or Canada...

I understand now what's your opinion... But in the same time, if you look the MV of the most "goal-hanger" on the pitch, if you want to make an efficient rule, it will handicap the slowest team... Like in the real life, you would say...

Lucien Swift · Post by **Lucien Swift** » Wed Apr 03, 2002 4:04 pm

an offside rule of any sort would ruin the game. if it was a soccer-style rule, it would be hard to enforce (the example you gave of the offside player having to either get onside or attempt to score might work, but it would be a change for the worse) and a hockey style rule would force you to push forward with the ball-carrier, creating a lot more possession changes... and thus lower scores, if any at all... you penalize everyone... slower teams may be the ones who fare best, only because the presence of such a rule forces a running style of play that those teams probably had int he first place...

good thing we don't need an offside rule, huh?

DaFrenchCoach · Post by **DaFrenchCoach** » Wed Apr 03, 2002 4:14 pm

Hum... I didn't understand you Lucien. I thought you said that an offside rule should be a solution for those goal hanger players...

In fact, your proposal is much a way for finding a ruleset to avoid goal hanger, than a willing to have an offside rule, correct ?

Lucien Swift · Post by **Lucien Swift** » Wed Apr 03, 2002 4:25 pm

no, i was just thinking out loud of how such a rule to prevent cherry picking (or goal hanging) might work within the mechanics of the game, given that what started the train of thought was my statement that the fact that such a rule had never been brought up is a reflection of how much such a rule just isn't needed in the game... cherry picking isn't a problem, but sometimes it's just fun to think through theoretical stuff like this even when you have no intention of actually putting it into the game when you're done...

now, what would be far more interesting as an exercise is nixing the idea of offside and instead developing "vintage" bloodbowl, based on the early form of american football where the forward pass wasn't allowed...

or maybe not... what were we talking about anyway? oh yeah... the 2-square endzone was removed because without the big guys being on 4-square bases, you didn't need it...

DaImp · Post by **DaImp** » Wed Apr 03, 2002 7:11 pm

This reminds me of a rugby variant of BB that I played along time ago. Passes could only go sideways or backwards, but there were rules for kicking up field and drop goals. I don't recall it being all that successful.

_________________
Jonathan Merry
Looking for other BB players in South Africa. (please email me)

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: DaImp on 2002-04-04 17:44 ]</font>

Longshot · Post by **Longshot** » Thu Apr 04, 2002 9:19 am

off side (either way soccer or hockey) could make the game more difficult for pass play or transmission one's but could be fun.
Running game don't suffer of that kind of rules.

plasmoid · Post by **plasmoid** » Sat May 25, 2002 12:51 pm

In our league, we are allowed to pick a special home stadium at the start of the new season.
This year I'll pick playing on the 2nd edition pitch with the 2 square endzone. (My old pitch will need some PVA glue and hobby grass).

With a 2 square endzone, my gobbos will have a better chance of hitting the mark, when I'm forced to do a desperate TTM pass straight for the endzone

sean newboy · Post by **sean newboy** » Sat May 25, 2002 2:15 pm

In bb a cherry picker who has st 3, block, and dodge is very useful as a decoy

, as i can attest to in div a of mbbl2. Had an opponent (who only had 9 guys on the pitch) use 3 guys to harass him. The joke was on him tho, mr cherry picker was just there for the scenery, i intended all along for one of my other players to score

, and he did.

plasmoid · Post by **plasmoid** » Sat May 25, 2002 2:24 pm

Hey,
add sidestep - then your cherry picker might actually survive long enough to pick some cherries

In danish, cherry pickers are called something like "fishermen".

sean newboy · Post by **sean newboy** » Sat May 25, 2002 2:31 pm

Nope his next advance (#4) will be Tackle, so he can be my safety.