BB2020 Resurrection Tournaments

[Chinos]

I know the NAF will be looking closely at the new rules and working out exactly what it will mean for tournaments in the future but at the moment there's no tournaments really happening and a shiny new game about to arrive.

So, how do we think the new game will affect tournaments in terms of rules packs; and what would you like to see.

(Not wanting arguments or to pre-empt any firm decisions, just after some interaction and little theory crafting)

For me:

• Not really looked at the overall balance in terms of player costs to know whether 1100gc remains a viable build amount.

• The lower cost of Star Players may see an increase in their selection

• I like the new way to spend SPPs and would like to see "X Normal & Y Double" replaced with a set number of SPPs per Tier which can be spent as coach sees fit (I play for fun so rolling random skills before each match appeals to me but can see the benefit in being able to plan by rolling before the tournament - perhaps rolled by TD)

• Any of the new skills likely to appear in builds instead of long standing ones?

• Will any races see a rise in popularity following the changes?

[Lyracian]

(Not wanting arguments or to pre-empt any firm decisions, just after some interaction and little theory crafting)

Sounds good! My theory crafting...

Initially I expect to just see "X Primary & Y Secondary" instead of "X Normal & Y Double". Those using SPP are likely to disallow random unless the TO has the time to sort it all out before hand and give players there final team at the start of the event.

I expect 1100 to still be the standard level for events. Not much has changed.

• Any of the new skills likely to appear in builds instead of long standing ones?

Overall No. Good skills are still good. A few corner cased mighty see a little play.
"On the Ball" is a better Kick-off Return that Halfings can get on a Hefty.
"Brawler" might turn up on Big Guys because it is cheaper than Block but it is still costing you a skill.
"Sneaky Git" on the Ooligan as he starts with Dirty Player

• Will any races see a rise in popularity following the changes?

Yes.
Underworld get 15k Snotlings so you can build 1100 teams with 16 players including a Star!
Halfing can take Griff. You can have the usual team of flings with a great ball carrier now.
Pro Elves being Tier 2 might make them a better tournament team than Wood Elves? Just as Necro were seen at the top tables due to their Tier 2 status.
Skaven and Humans also got better.

Flip side is the loser
Not sure Necro are going to be competitive any longer. Wood Elves took a big hit. No more cage diving for you. Lizardman also got a 50k price increase on the team and Break Tackle is worse which will impact on their tournament performance.

[Papa Sebco]

First french NAF tourney with BB 2020 rules have been announced (even if we don't know if it will really take place) so I can give their answers to your first questions.

• Not really looked at the overall balance in terms of player costs to know whether 1100gc remains a viable build amount.

They opted for a TV 115, as adviced in the exbition games rules part of the new rule book.

• The lower cost of Star Players may see an increase in their selection

They didn't authorize Star Players (while they authorized them in BB 2016 / LRB 6 previous year). I personnaly understand their choice as BB 2020 Star Players seem very powerful (lower cost + new special abilities)

• I like the new way to spend SPPs and would like to see "X Normal & Y Double" replaced with a set number of SPPs per Tier which can be spent as coach sees fit (I play for fun so rolling random skills before each match appeals to me but can see the benefit in being able to plan by rolling before the tournament - perhaps rolled by TD)

They gave 30 XP to Tier 1 teams, 36 XP to Tier 2 teams, 42 XP to Tier 3 teams (they used new official Tiers) but didn't authorize random skills and random characteristic improvements.

[montanhas18]

• I like the new way to spend SPPs and would like to see "X Normal & Y Double" replaced with a set number of SPPs per Tier which can be spent as coach sees fit (I play for fun so rolling random skills before each match appeals to me but can see the benefit in being able to plan by rolling before the tournament - perhaps rolled by TD)

My two cents... I still like the "here's X gold for skills" option better, if coaches can use that extra gold for non-skills. If someone wants to skip a couple of skills to add another RR, or another line, an Apot, etc, etc... I like them to have that choice. All level ups have a TV cost in the rulebook, so it's still easy to just give gold.

I do like the option you mention, having the randoms. But - as a TO - I would do it before the tournament. A couple of days before the tournament, in fact. Mostly to give that coach time to rethink his coaching strategy depending on what skills they got, etc.

Again my two cents.

[montanhas18]

If you don't mind someone else adding a topic... I'm curious on what you - and everyone else - thinks about GW's tiers.

So currently, BB2020 Tiers:
1 -  Amazons, Chaos Dwarfs, Dark Elves, Dwarf, Human, Lizards, Norse, OWA, Orcs, Undead, Skaven, Wood Elf
2 -  Black Orcs, Chosen, Chaos Renegade, High Elf, Union, Imperial, Necromantic, Nurgle, Tomb Kings, Underworld, Vampire
3 -  Goblins, Flings, Ogres, Snotlings

Will tournaments with tiers stick to these? Maybe split 1 and 2 into 4 tiers?

[Jayward]

The 3 tier system has always been a bit ham-fisted; it's essentially 2 tiers + stunties. All you can say about the T2 guys is that they're not T1; Elven Union are fantastic, Vampires are atrocious, both are T2. There's such a gulf that I think more than 3 tiers is almost mandatory if you're aiming for a reasonably even field.

And what on earth are OWA doing in T1? They honestly look like dross. I'm not 100% sure Humans are suddenly T1 either.

I don't think we can be sure how it will all pan out until we've seen a decent number of tournaments under the new rules.

[Lyracian]

If you don't mind someone else adding a topic... I'm curious on what you - and everyone else - thinks about GW's tiers.

So currently, BB2020 Tiers:
1 -  Amazons, Chaos Dwarfs, Dark Elves, Dwarf, Human, Lizards, Norse, OWA, Orcs, Undead, Skaven, Wood Elf
2 -  Black Orcs, Chosen, Chaos Renegade, High Elf, Union, Imperial, Necromantic, Nurgle, Tomb Kings, Underworld, Vampire
3 -  Goblins, Flings, Ogres, Snotlings

Will tournaments with tiers stick to these? Maybe split 1 and 2 into 4 tiers?

The 3 tier system has always been a bit ham-fisted; it's essentially 2 tiers + stunties.

Without at least 4 Tier you essential have "Strong", "Average", "Stunty".

This was the NAF Champs list
Tier 1 - Amazon, Bretonnian, Chaos Dwarf, Dark Elf, Dwarf, Lizardmen, Norse, Orc, Skaven, Shambling Undead, Wood Elf
Tier 2 - Chaos Chosen, Renegades, Union, High Elf, Human, Khemri Tomb Kings, Khorne, Necromantic Horror, Nurgle, Underworld, Slann, Vampire
Tier 3 - Halfling, Goblin, Ogre

Changes
Tier 1 up - Humans
Tier 2 down - Bret/Imperial.

Well frankly Bret's were never Tier 1 in my eyes. Humans are better now. Not sure they are enough for Tier 1 Tournament but they are better than Orcs so might as well have them there. We will have to see what the Tournament results turn out like.

[Chinos]

My two cents... I still like the "here's X gold for skills" option better, if coaches can use that extra gold for non-skills. If someone wants to skip a couple of skills to add another RR, or another line, an Apot, etc, etc... I like them to have that choice. All level ups have a TV cost in the rulebook, so it's still easy to just give gold.

Yeah I can see the benefits of that and would be interesting to see if TOs could incorporate that and allow the random element of skill selection (can't remember if random skills are half SPP cost and half TV).

As for Tiering, the 7 Tier system they had at UKTC last year seemed to work well but may need some teams moving around.