EUROPEN : What appened in round 3 ?

[PeteW]

I'm enjoying the talk of chess clocks as these were in use at the weekend. Was one in use during the match in question? Sounds like it should have been.

My only problem with chess clocks, one coach can use far more of the allocated time on their drive before the clock is introduced, then the opponent only gets half the remaining Clocked time to rush through their drive.

Agreed, and so when my first round opponent (Straume) suggested we use the clocks after turn 1 (we both agreed that it would be a deep, thoughtful and potentially slow game) I readily agreed as that would allow each of us to use our time wisely, i.e. spending more time on offence than defence.

In the end, I used 35 mins on my drive, and only 15 mins on his! We finished well in time, but without clocks I am sure that his drive would have been shortened further which would have been unfair.

[Barney the Lurker]

how did you deal with toilet/rest breaks? was that done on the clock or a mutually agreed pause?

[dreamscreator]

how did you deal with toilet/rest breaks? was that done on the clock or a mutually agreed pause?

In my case, happened four times during the six games (three for my opponents and one for me), it was a mutually agreed after a touchdown or at the end of the first half. During the set up of the opponent.

I don't see a point to said "no" to my opponent go to the toilet, more after the first game of the day when people maybe have drink a couple (or more) beers. But, if I see that the game can be slow and don't finish on time, I would ask for a clock.

I'm more or less a quick player, and I have never had a problem, but part of the game is see how is going the timing of game, and see if you are not to finish on time, then ask for a clock.

[plasmoid]

Hi Bourpif,
I feel your pain.
The reroll situation thing must have been very annoying, and if I was certain that I had not used my rerolls, then I too would have been upset if one was rremoved like that. I think in this case your opponent should have been aware when it happened, if he thinks that you spent a reroll without removing a reroll token. IMO.

The timing issue, frankly, I don't agree with you on.
Yes, it would have been nice if your opponent was a gentleman. Sounds like he wasn't - in this case.
That said, the organizers said sooo many times during the tournament, that finishing on time was the up to the coaches, and that the game would end immediately, when time was up.
Coaches could ask for a chess clock at any time, if they felt time was running low.
And after the reroll argument, it would have been smart to either get (or adjust) a clock.
IMO, you both should have been aware of the time, and you both should have known what the rules were.
So while I do understand that you're upset with your opponent, you could have avoided the situation.

Cheers
Martin

[gjnoronh]

As a newer tournament organizer I'd love to see an NAF document just outlining different approaches to time keeping and some general thoughts on pros and cons of each. It's much clearer if you are a very experienced tournament goer and organizer but less clear if you are of a newer generation.

True Chess clocks seem relatively expensive when I've priced them out for my non Blood Bowl events (given the number of tables involved.)
I've been using relatively inexpensive turn timers set at 4 minutes for Blood Bowl - (implemented if a game is going slow or is not at half time by half way through the time period) but recognize they might optimally need additional rules sometimes to account for out of phase decisions (i.e. sidestep) and rules discussions. I've also told players they can use their cell phones as a back up.

Seems like this event had some of the 'best in class' approaches to time management. Would be nice to have that laid out in something aspiring TO's look at

What are the options, what are the pros/cons and suggestions on how to get the right equipment etc.

[Digger Goreman]

Currently we use a painted base (30 mm) that slides under the player that used the reroll in the turn. Yet we are friends.... A past league player used a number of counters that he moved from the reroll track to the turn track, when used.... Perhaps that is best in tourneys?

[Smeborg]

Chess clocks can be borrowed or hired at minimal cost from your local chess club.

[Smeborg]

I'm enjoying the talk of chess clocks as these were in use at the weekend. Was one in use during the match in question? Sounds like it should have been.

My only problem with chess clocks, one coach can use far more of the allocated time on their drive before the clock is introduced, then the opponent only gets half the remaining Clocked time to rush through their drive.

I can live with that. The slow player is usually used to taking much time, and struggles once clocks are imposed (that's my experience anyway).

Hope that helps.

[Strider84]

Hi Bourpif,
I feel your pain.
The reroll situation thing must have been very annoying, and if I was certain that I had not used my rerolls, then I too would have been upset if one was rremoved like that. I think in this case your opponent should have been aware when it happened, if he thinks that you spent a reroll without removing a reroll token. IMO.

The timing issue, frankly, I don't agree with you on.
Yes, it would have been nice if your opponent was a gentleman. Sounds like he wasn't - in this case.
That said, the organizers said sooo many times during the tournament, that finishing on time was the up to the coaches, and that the game would end immediately, when time was up.
Coaches could ask for a chess clock at any time, if they felt time was running low.
And after the reroll argument, it would have been smart to either get (or adjust) a clock.
IMO, you both should have been aware of the time, and you both should have known what the rules were.
So while I do understand that you're upset with your opponent, you could have avoided the situation.

Cheers
Martin

This, although i have to say there needs to be a clear ruling if the combined time goes over the limit. I daw this on a couple tables..
That said, I do think trying to win like that is very disrespectful.

[ssb]

(...)
That said, I do think trying to win like that is very disrespectful.

I so agree with you.

We are talking about 10 seconds of game.
How many people would abuse this ?
Would you all ?

[Skitters]

I'm relatively new to tournaments and had not come across that method of reroll tracking. Now that I've read it, it does make sense to place the burnt rerolls on the turn track when used as it would be clear if you have used one in the current turn.

What I am wondering though is whether there was a discussion at the beginning of the game to say that that was how you would approach the rerolls? I'm not sure it would have been obvious to me (though that may be my inexperience) as I'd expect to see unspent rerolls in the reroll tracker.

Whilst I would have thought you would have been allowed to conclude your move, it may be that your opponent genuinely thought that you had no rerolls left. If so he would have felt you had gained a reroll. I think in that circumstance it may be easier to understand why he would have chosen to be less than generous with calling time. Whilst it sounds like he was wrong on both counts it seems to me his perception of the first incident (coupled with being in a team event) may have impacted his behaviour at the end of the game.

[ssb]

(...) Whilst it sounds like he was wrong on both counts it seems to me his perception of the first incident (coupled with being in a team event) may have impacted his behaviour at the end of the game.

Or he could be a dirty, dirty cheater with, it's the whole package, no sense of fair play...

That's the other explanation...

[20phoenix]

(...) Whilst it sounds like he was wrong on both counts it seems to me his perception of the first incident (coupled with being in a team event) may have impacted his behaviour at the end of the game.

Or he could be a dirty, dirty cheater with, it's the whole package, no sense of fair play...

That's the other explanation...

I think that's pretty out of line. He played within the rules of the tournament.

[ssb]

I'm talking about the "reroll incident"...

I don't think I'm out of line at all.
Amongst the possibilities, this one is possible.

Maybe it's not polite to suggest someone could be a cheater but hey, some people are.

The other incident is, in my opinion, a total lack of fair play.
Which is just nearly as bad.

[Wobert]

There is a context which is missing here.

Earlier the same day, the same coach was playing against a very slow opponent. He was 1TD down and had a turn with Dark Elfs to pick up the ball and score, rerolls in hand I believe (I could be wrong on that). The referees would not let him take his turn and so he lost the game that he was highly likey to have drawn.