So - about that human catcher

[plasmoid]

Hi all,
remember when GW got back into BB, they decided to make a tweak to improve the human catcher.

Cyanide/BB2 had been using the 8238 catcher for quite a while, and the human team was doing pretty well with them. Which is why it was a disappointment (to me) that GW went with 8237 60K instead. To my mind a 10K Price reduction doesn't really do much to make the player more useful. And the people I've recently talked to WHO are playing humans are also underwhelmed.

Now - GW can do whatever they want.
But the reason they gave for keeping AV7 was that the miniature was less armoured and did not look like AV8.
And here's the ting: I just can't see any difference armour-wize between the Human Thrower (AV8) and the Human Catcher (AV7)


The catchers could have been AV8 just fine.

Cheers
Martin

[lunchmoney]

But the reason they gave for keeping AV7 was that the miniature was less armoured and did not look like AV8.
And here's the ting: I just can't see any difference armour-wize between the Human Thrower (AV8) and the Human Catcher (AV7)

Really?

The catcher's shoulder pads are smaller than the thrower's pads and have no spikes.
The catcher's mitts look more cloth/leather like than the throwers gloves that have metal spikes.

And that is from just a quick glance at the picture in your post.

[hutchinsfairy]

But the reason they gave for keeping AV7 was that the miniature was less armoured and did not look like AV8.
And here's the ting: I just can't see any difference armour-wize between the Human Thrower (AV8) and the Human Catcher (AV7)

Really?

The catcher's shoulder pads are smaller than the thrower's pads and have no spikes.
The catcher's mitts look more cloth/leather like than the throwers gloves that have metal spikes.

And that is from just a quick glance at the picture in your post.

Debating whether GW interpreted the miniatures correctly lends credibility to the asinine notion that miniature design should dictate rules.

I'm not saying that anyone's opinion is wrong, just pointless.

[howlinggriffon]

Debating whether GW interpreted the miniatures correctly lends credibility to the asinine notion that miniature design should dictate rules.

To play devil's advocate, this is how the Gutter Runners ended up having their poisoned daggers rule. The minis were sculpted well before the game rules were being worked on and they had daggers - so the designers added a rule for these which doesn't really add a lot to the game apart from having a chance to ruin your opponents next one.

I don't agree with the idea of Human catchers being AV8 though. ST2 players being AV8 just feels wrong.

[Dr. Von Richten]

Debating whether GW interpreted the miniatures correctly lends credibility to the asinine notion that miniature design should dictate rules.

This.

To play devil's advocate, this is how the Gutter Runners ended up having their poisoned daggers rule.

Which is just proof that 'the notion that miniature design should dictate rules' is a stupid idea.

As far as I'm concerned, the Human Catcher should have been S3 (and AV7) for 80k (or even 90k). At S2 he was mostly useless at 70k, and is still mostly useless at 60k. +AV does little to rectify that anyway.

[Deathrain]

I have been pretty happy with the two catchers I run in my 2016 league. One of them has become a bloated block, mv+, st+, sprint abomination capable of blitzing down unsuspecting ball carries way in the backline, though, that might skew my perception a bit.

[spubbbba]

Debating whether GW interpreted the miniatures correctly lends credibility to the asinine notion that miniature design should dictate rules.

To play devil's advocate, this is how the Gutter Runners ended up having their poisoned daggers rule. The minis were sculpted well before the game rules were being worked on and they had daggers - so the designers added a rule for these which doesn't really add a lot to the game apart from having a chance to ruin your opponents next one.

I don't agree with the idea of Human catchers being AV8 though. ST2 players being AV8 just feels wrong.

Worst thing is, that arm isn't even a new sculpt. It is a cut and paste job from the clanrat boxed set. Though I think they mirrored it if memory serves.

The difficulty I have had with humans is they are quite squishy, bash teams will often do more damage as they suck at running away. And they can quite easily lose fights against agile teams.

So humans need a sub bench to remain competitive. Making players cheaper does help with this, but catchers are often the weak link. I would like the blitzers to be cheaper, but the full 10k discount may be too much.

ST3 catchers is an option too, but that makes them more like high elfs. AV8 does have the advantage of being unique. I wonder if there are stats on cyanide of how many armour rolls per game human catchers average?

[Rolex]

Both 60k as price and AV 8 are "Occam Razor" solution.
They change as little as possible the rules trying to fix a problem (the human catcher uselessness) which IMO is a very good thing (since BloodBowl rules work pretty well).
Both are sensible. As a human coach I prefer the AV8 solution because it convinces me to field catchers while the reduced cost does not.

ST 3 would simply replace the human team with a different team with different ways of play and different strategy and just the same name.
Which I consider an undesiderable outcome.

[plasmoid]

I agree 100% with Rolex.
I also agree with Hutchinsfairy and others, that rules based on minis is not a good idea.

@lunchmoney - fair enough. I meant the kind of difference that would mean a difference in AV. Human catcher has thigh protection, jock strap, chest plate, shoulder pads and helmet (with face mask). He looks nothing like the half-naked norsemen or amazons.

@Dr. Van Richten - in my experience the AV8 does make a difference. At AV7 they’re soft targets every turn. With AV8 they are much less of a liability. IMO.
Cheers
Martin

[Mystic Force]

I think that weeping blade skill is exactly what the Dark Elf Assassin should have. You use him to target the other teams player to make their situation in the next game worse. Would it be effective? Probably not, but it would fit with the name of the positional at least.

[Gaixo]

I know that ST3 catchers seem too good, but it would be the easiest way to turn humans into a legit top tier team. And the GW model looks ST3 to me, if that matters at all.

[JT-Y]

It's not changing.

[plasmoid]

Didn't think it would

[stowelly]

While its not a great positional doesn't a skink - stunty +catch for 10k cheaper seem reasonable?

[plasmoid]

Hi Stowelly,
It’s not 10K cheaper. They’re both 60K. (Right?)
I think Stunty is a lot more useful than catch - but that may just be my personal preference.
More to the point though, the Skink is a lineman. Perhaps the problem is just that the human catcher doesn’t compare favourably to a 60k lineman. It’s not like the human team has particularly impressive players filling their other positions. IMO.
Cheers
Martin