New Team! (It's... not Nurgle!)

[Babs]

Meh - and Nurgle remains the only team we have seen the concept art for and yet remains unreleased. All other teams which have been released (Chaos Chosen aside) we've seen the artwork for. As such, the Chaos Chosen team is "Out of order" in that it's jumped the queue to be released before the Nurgle team. The Nurgle team had it's concept art completed and approved before the release of the Boxed set. Since then, I've not seen any concept art released.
*Sniff* - love Mark Bedford's concept sketches.

...

And speaking of awesome Van Saar - who did the concept art for them JT-Y?

[Babs]

Yep, Scyla Anfingrimm or similar:

[faust_33]

Meh - and Nurgle remains the only team we have seen the concept art for and yet remains unreleased. All other teams which have been released (Chaos Chosen aside) we've seen the artwork for. As such, the Chaos Chosen team is "Out of order" in that it's jumped the queue to be released before the Nurgle team. The Nurgle team had it's concept art completed and approved before the release of the Boxed set. Since then, I've not seen any concept art released.
*Sniff* - love Mark Bedford's concept sketches.

Not sure that is correct, because we've also seen a Goblin team and a Elven Union team released. I don't remember seeing initial concept sketches for either of those teams.

It is baffling why we haven't seen Nurgle yet. I imagine that one of the Undead would be coming out sometime soon, as those teams have no representation either. Maybe in the fourth quarter, closer to Halloween.

Scyla looks pretty cool, but the actual mini is $50 (USD) and comes on a 60mm base. I'm guessing that mini is too big for most Blood Bowl pitches? Could he possibly be getting a smaller mini just for Blood Bowl? If so, I think that's the first time we've seen such a thing. It's always been a question in my mind regarding the Nurgle Beast as well, which can be another very large mini.

[Jip]

Scyla looks pretty cool, but the actual mini is $50 (USD) and comes on a 60mm base. I'm guessing that mini is too big for most Blood Bowl pitches? Could he possibly be getting a smaller mini just for Blood Bowl?

I don't play AoS so, when I saw this model alongside a photo of the Spike! magazine on twitter, I got excited 'cos I thought it was a Star Player sculpt that was being released, too!

Waiting to hear a bit more about the Spike! magazine. If it is new Chaos team/s, stars, coaches etc., not sure why they haven't just put it in a(nother) Death Zone book to continue the format (like Codexes in 40k, or Battletomes [?] in AoS).

[Babs]

Not sure that is correct, because we've also seen a Goblin team and a Elven Union team released. I don't remember seeing initial concept sketches for either of those teams.

...and this fellow.

[nyahoi]

Meh - and Nurgle remains the only team we have seen the concept art for and yet remains unreleased. All other teams which have been released (Chaos Chosen aside) we've seen the artwork for. As such, the Chaos Chosen team is "Out of order" in that it's jumped the queue to be released before the Nurgle team. The Nurgle team had it's concept art completed and approved before the release of the Boxed set. Since then, I've not seen any concept art released.

It hasn't 'jumped the queue' though, because there is no concept art 'queue' to speak of. Concept art is made for the development of the product, not our perusal. Sometimes we get the pleasure of viewing some of it, but its certainly not the case that every miniature released has it's concept art revealed to us beforehand.
As has been shown, not getting a look at any Chaos chosen art didn't mean it's development wasn't further down the pipe than Nurgle's. Perhaps at the time the Nurgle sheets were reveled, the Chaos one's were busy being used. Pinned to a sculptor's wall for example. Or maybe the Nurgle team was initially ahead, but then ran into complications.
We simply don't know.

Waiting to hear a bit more about the Spike! magazine. If it is new Chaos team/s, stars, coaches etc., not sure why they haven't just put it in a(nother) Death Zone book to continue the format (like Codexes in 40k, or Battletomes [?] in AoS).

I'm imagining that Spikes will act as the codexes. Each issue focusing on a newly released team (rules, fluff, pics), and that Deathzones will continue to give new game rules, along with the rules for all teams released up to that point, and any necessary erratas to them.

[Babs]

It hasnt 'jumped the queue' though, because there is no 'queue' to speak of. Concept art is made for the development of the product, not our perusal. Sometimes we get the pleasure of viewing some of it, but its certainly not the case that every miniature released has it's concept art revealed to us beforehand.
As has been shown, not getting a look at any Chaos chosen art didn't mean it's development wasn't further down the pipe than Nurgle's. Perhaps at the time the Nurgle sheets were reveled, the Chaos one's were busy being used. Pinned to a sculptor's wall for example. Or maybe the Nurgle team was initially ahead, but then ran into complications.
We simply don't know.

Yeah, I disagree here. They pretty much put their entire concept art 'on the table' prior to the release of the Boxed set. We have the full swathe of released minis up until the Minotaur and Glart (and Grombrindl, goblin stars and Black Gobbo), and now this Chaos Chosen team.

I actually think releasing the concept art for comment, as some 3rd party companies do, helps avoid 'misses' - for example, the new goblin secret weapon players. The demand for the 3rd edition stars since their release has gone _up_, not down.

We have the text and roster for Nurgle, including a new star (Guffle Pussmaw), we have the concept art for the team, including Guffle. We have nothing for Chaos, which sat in the Teams of Legend PDF. However, the team has been "Brought Forward" to help launch the Spike Journal. Nurgle could not do that, since its team roster is already in DZ season 1.

[Babs]

JT-Y - who did the concept art for the Van Saar gang?

[Lyracian]

Waiting to hear a bit more about the Spike! magazine. If it is new Chaos team/s, stars, coaches etc., not sure why they haven't just put it in a(nother) Death Zone book to continue the format (like Codexes in 40k, or Battletomes [?] in AoS).

My thought was the Spike Magizine will replace the Death Zones and then the Almanac V2 will be the collection of all the Spike Magazines.

Meh - and Nurgle remains the only team we have seen the concept art for and yet remains unreleased. All other teams which have been released (Chaos Chosen aside)

Could this be to do with them hiring new sculptors? Not sure if the person doing the sketches would then make the models? Perhaps the original person is still working on Nurgle and the others are jumping forward as they only have one project?

[JT-Y]

Right, let me explain concept art. We use concept art for all manner of things. Initially it is to put down ideas thrown around verbally on paper in a visual rather than written form. The artists make concept sketches before starting on big pieces, to get an idea of what the finished pieces will look like. The sculptors also make concept sketches for the same reason, as personal reference and to convoy ideas to others.

We have tonnes of concept art here, the vast majority of which never gets seen. What we showed for the Nurgle team was stuff Mark had been working on, and it was shown at Warhammer Fest to generate discussion and to allow attendees to see something cool first hand. Those sketches do not mean models like that exist (or perhaps they do). We aren't in the habit of showing particularly valuable concept work at any stage, let alone an early stage, because doing so means stuff gets stolen.

Now, no queues have been jumped. We had planned the release of the Chaos team and this first Spike! Journal about 2 years ago. Things don't jump around in the order because doing that would be insane, making miniatures isn't just a simple matter of sculpting something and then selling it, we're a bit bigger than that and we have a huge network of retail and trade accounts to serve all around the world, so we plan in advance.
The tools need making and that work takes time, time that is booked into a schedule of work, and the tool makers, being very busy, follow that. Same is true of printing, we need to get stuff laid out and translated and we have a lot of projects on the go so people need to be able to work sensibly to achieve that, and we need to get stuff scheduled with the printers. All of which means dates are set and deadlines don't shift. Finally, we have logistics to think about, if we want to release something all around the world on the same day, it requires months of lead time to get stock in place for local delivery. Our release schedule extends a long way into the future, what's on it is a closely guarded secret. The next few releases have been planned for a very long time as well. This information will be shared with the public through the usual channels in due course.

If you don't know what we're releasing next, that's because we're very good at keeping these things secret.

We'll keep you informed. Rest assured that we have a lot of releases coming.

[Fist of Gales]

In retrospect, it shouldnt have been a surprise that Chaos Chosen was the next team to appear. With one of their player types already released (Minotaur), it would cut down on the number of items that would need to be produced. I definitely didnt even consider that fact before the release!

TL

[Babs]

JT-Y said:

We aren't in the habit of showing particularly valuable concept work at any stage, let alone an early stage, because doing so means stuff gets stolen.

Mr. Taylor-Yorke, that whole post is very, very helpful and did correct my thinking in some areas.

It is so sad that is true - but unfortunately it is true. I personally think that it is despicable that there is an unofficial miniature of a sketch in DZ season II of one of the stars. I would boycott the tournament it is for personally, but I know others think differently.

However, I do wish that we had the chance to comment on concept art before the final miniature is released, as there have been some "misses" in my book that I think could have been avoided. Even little things like the display paintwork of Hakflem and the Rat Ogre (people reacted to their 'bald' state, but not the minotaur not having sculpted hair). I think this affects sales. With some community consultation over concept art, this can be avoided.

However, I get the balancing act that you need to do to avoid people ripping off your ideas - such as Guffle minis coming out from Willy.

[JT-Y]

Misses in one person's book are hits in another's.

[Babs]

Misses in one person's book are hits in another's.

Sales don't lie.

I'm sure GW watch that closely, and know "misses" and "Hits" all too well especially considering 'like sales' of like miniatures for game systems, and Forgeworld & GW main plastics as two different kettles of fish.

As mentioned, by releasing concept art in a carefully managed way, this allows community consultation. In the Blood Bowl world, I can't think how this would be a bad thing. For example, I suspect future Blood Bowl boards (with the exception of neoprene roll up boards) might be poorly taken up as it is my opinion that GW has now saturated this. I also think comparing the 'race specific' card sales to the more generic decks. By following a tracking method of miniature sales, will allow GW to know hits and misses - although it is a complex beast, as obviously sales also relate to how many teams the miniature can play for (and it's uses), the stat line of the miniature and so on.

I still can't see the bad side of getting feedback on concept art and how suggestions for improvement would be a bad thing, providing the designs are not ripped off! However, this is a big shift for GW, who always know right.

[JT-Y]

I'll pass all of that on on Monday morning.