Death Zone 2 Feedback thread

[frogboy]

I like Horatio the master mage. He's a bit random. CRP Wizards can be used to blast a cage with a fireball hoping for an opening or lightning bolt to drop the ball carrier.

The new guy is way less exact.

[garion]

I like Horatio the master mage. He's a bit random. CRP Wizards can be used to blast a cage with a fireball hoping for an opening or lightning bolt to drop the ball carrier.

The new guy is way less exact.

D3 scatter is easily manageable It still means you are likely to be hitting the cage, if it were one shot only for 80k yeah thats fine, but you get 2..... Any 1 player in a cage is taken out before your turn and rats and elves in particular can pounce.

JT-Y,

How is it meant to play with the standard Wizard? Was that tested at all? We're about to move to a new season and, before I propose adding these inducements, I'm trying to figure out how it would work if someone took the 150k Wizard and the 80k Wizard. Can both be activated before/after a turn? First glance is that 80k may be a little cheap (but, as you've said, we haven't actually played with it yet), but my main concern is if someone has 230k in inducement money.

Was that scenario tested or, since the 150k Wizard isn't official yet, was that left out?

Thanks.

indeed. I asked this as well. Same goes for having fezglitch and the verminator on the pitch at the same time. Could be too good imo.

As with all Inducements, I'd point at pg28 of DZ1, you can, as so many people always have with Wizards, Cards, even Stars in some leagues and tournaments, exclude any Inducements you wish. These new ones are no different.

This is a cop out. Playing with the core rules is the main way to play the game. yes people can remove stuff they don't like. But the core game should be solid enough that this is not needed. We shouldn't have to amend the core rules to keep the game from descending in to a couple of dice rolls that singularly decide outcome of a game.

[huff]

DZ2 Feedback...

Optional: Lots of neat ideas to add to your league if it becomes stale or the coaches/commish just want more outside of the actual game. Even if not followed exactly, there are lots of other outside factors from the actual game to dive into.

Fluff: Grade A... having said that, I am no efficienado and take it all at face value. As long as they keep the corny puns I'm alright.

Core:
- Loner kept on the reworked Goblins is an oversight
- Missed a chance to revamp the Sneaky Git skill with the sneakiest race of them all!
- Mutations still a double on Chaos Pact Bigs hurts
- The general rule of roster creation regarding '# of positionals' is out the door it seems
- Horatio is OP, on paper at least... Prolly the generic 'wizard' as we know it for all races, while race-specific wizzies are being created.

Overall, a bunch of new content and bolt-ons to the existing game, nothing to do with balancing the existing/rules in place.... Not nessasarily the approach I would have like seen taken, but then again I'm just a fan of the game and not thinking bottom line.

[frogboy]

I like Horatio the master mage. He's a bit random. CRP Wizards can be used to blast a cage with a fireball hoping for an opening or lightning bolt to drop the ball carrier.

The new guy is way less exact.

D3 scatter is easily manageable It still means you are likely to be hitting the cage, if it were one shot only for 80k yeah thats fine, but you get 2..... Any 1 player in a cage is taken out before your turn and rats and elves in particular can pounce.
t, was that left out?

Thanks.

Yeah but its one fireball per half, and with the scatter it makes it less likely to hit the cage, especially if your playing someone who uses loose cage because you have a wizard. Then its still only 50% chance to knock them down.

I like it because its a bit random like everything in Blood Bowl and the normal wizard is too powerful, hence why many tournements disallow them. I wouldnt be supprised if they are removed from the game altogether in the future or never reprinted. Eventually GW will make anouncment that the CRP or pdf teams of legend etc are no longer valid.

I think you have valid point about combining the two together but its alot of cash to spend on wizards.

I'm no expert though

[garion]

If it was only 1 slightly inaccurate fireball for 80k there would be no problem here. But it is 1 each half. And a d3 scatter is nothing to worry about, the template will still land on the ball carrier 1 in 3 times, and almost always fall over something. no matter which way you spin it 80k for 2 fireballs is a game changing event.

Another thing that is sadly missing from DZ 2 - Secret Weapon rolls are still missing from the game. Sure we get Finka instead for goblins but this is still a very sad omission for me.

[iamcrazyjoe]

And a d3 scatter is nothing to worry about, the template will still land on the ball carrier 1 in 3 times, and almost always fall over something.

How do you calculate that? it is a d3 scatter in a random direction.

edit: nevermind, I see what you mean, I just don't get how a 1/3 at a 50/50 chance is overpowered? even once per half

[garion]

And a d3 scatter is nothing to worry about, the template will still land on the ball carrier 1 in 3 times, and almost always fall over something.

How do you calculate that? it is a d3 scatter in a random direction.

edit: nevermind, I see what you mean, I just don't get how a 1/3 at a 50/50 chance is overpowered? even once per half

Because its not just about knocking the ball carrier over. If 1 opposing player is removed from a cage or screen then you can usually get a pretty good shot on the ball carrier. For some races this wont be soo bad, like Khemri for example couldnt really take that much advantage of this although it still has its uses. But you need to look at these things when they are used in their strongest forms i.e. Wood Elves, Skaven, Elves etc..., ag4 high Ma teams. All they need is to get the ball on the ground and the game is often done, pick up in tackle zone, hand off and run away. Game over. My favourite teams in the game apart from Flings is Pro Elfs (Elf Union as they are now known) I wait all game for little chances at the ball carrier. This gives you 2 shots through little to no tactical play.

If the wizard only gave you one shot, i think 80k might be about right. But 2 shots at either knocking the ball carrier down or breaking open a cage before you get to take your move is pretty huge. Also keep in mind that because the way cash is dealt with now at a cost of 80k the tv leader will be able to buy one of these without it adding to their TV quite often giving the TV leader a greater advantage than they already have. Another way you could make this fairly costed while keeping the 2 shots is make this wizard only work at the end of your turn. Either way would make this guy ok. In his current form he is too big a crutch for Ag Ma teams and I fear I will be seeing him way way too often, so much so that he is almost a permanent fixture in games.

[frogboy]

Also use him to blast stalling teams or just to knock key players on the floor then foul them.

He is good, i think its more of a problem for leagues but the Commissioner can ban him if it becomes a problem.

I still like him though

[stashman]

Both teams buy him and he leaves the game.

Always have 80k in chest incase of this

[faust_33]

Another thing that is sadly missing from DZ 2 - Secret Weapon rolls are still missing from the game. Sure we get Finka instead for goblins but this is still a very sad omission for me.

Oh yea, I thought I was missing something. Wasn't there a roll involved to see if they get sent off? How do they work in BB2016? Secret weapons go on the pitch and are then just removed after a drive or half?

[JT-Y]

Secret Weapons are unchanged from the CRP.

[faust_33]

Well, I just got DZ2 last night. I was only able to skim through most, but liked what I saw. Read the fluff on the Chaos All-Stars, which was fun.

New Stars are great. I actually liked Verminator the best, though I think he would have been more interesting with a randomly chosen Secret Weapon each time he is hired. I imagine that might be hard to balance though, without also having to alter his stats/cost.

Nice to see Farik and I really want to try and customize a mini for him, though it will be a challenge for me with the new minis, and I have no idea what I'm going to use for the ballzooka yet. Probably have to look at some other mini lines.

Looking forward to diving into it some more and can't wait for them to get the Goblin SW minis out so I can put a team together.

[huff]

Another thing that is sadly missing from DZ 2 - Secret Weapon rolls are still missing from the game. Sure we get Finka instead for goblins but this is still a very sad omission for me.

I think this is a place where Sneaky Git could have had use in some capacity, instead of just being a skill that is rarely taken and for good reason. Of course there are other skills like this is well, but DZ2 has Gabbos, and if any race should be utilizing a skill named 'Sneaky Git' it's them.

[faust_33]

Secret Weapons are unchanged from the CRP.

Thanks JT-Y.

As for the Wizard coach being overpowered when paired with another wizard. It really depends on what the rules are for wizards. Maybe there will be a rule about how many spells can be used during a half or a limitation on buying a wizard if you have the wizard coach.

And Milo (and probably JT-Y) posted in some of the threads, 'Wait and see, think you will like DZ2'. Which I just have to say "You're right!" and "Thanks!". Really pleased with the direction things are going now. Rules wise things are looking real good. If they can just release more things in plastic and skip resin, I'll be really happy minis wise too.

[garion]

Another thing that is sadly missing from DZ 2 - Secret Weapon rolls are still missing from the game. Sure we get Finka instead for goblins but this is still a very sad omission for me.

Oh yea, I thought I was missing something. Wasn't there a roll involved to see if they get sent off? How do they work in BB2016? Secret weapons go on the pitch and are then just removed after a drive or half?

In LRB4 there was a roll to determine whether or not a secret weapon was sent off. In LRB5 and CRP this was removed for a rule in which they are auto sent off.

I was just hopeful they would revert to the superior rule of rolling SW roll to see if they were sent it. It was IMO a far superior rule. Many many people still use it this day because of how limiting straight sending off is for a number of reasons.

Just another missed opportunity to improve the game here imo.