Talk Fantasy Football

JT-Y wrote:Update was written by James. Playtesters only helped with wording.

Funny story. They were always going to be updated but the more people get angry, call people names, use foul language, send abusive emails, and basically behave like they should be living in a field, the less likely they are to get what they want.

Imagine that eh.

Im gonna disagree with this entire post. Andy himself told me the rules were intentional and would not be changing. He was either lying or you are misinformed. People's minds can change and I'm glad that the rules were updated to reflect general consensus.

He told people that both privately and publicly. Still could have been saying it because he was annoyed or whatever.

When it became apparent that they weren't good, yes, they were always going to get updated. The point I'm making is that ranting and raging doesn't get anyone what they want, and believe me there was a lot of that went on.

The rules have been updated, feedback has been listened to as it always will be. But there are ways and ways of doing things.

Are they ever going to sell these models again?

Seems like a lot of drama for a couple of optional stars that only a minority of people have.

JT-Y wrote:When it became apparent that they weren't good, yes, they were always going to get updated. The point I'm making is that ranting and raging doesn't get anyone what they want, and believe me there was a lot of that went on.

The rules have been updated, feedback has been listened to as it always will be. But there are ways and ways of doing things.

Taking offense to agressive ragey posts is not a valid excuse for not making the game better. As my daddy always told me, admit your mistakes, learn from them, try to fix them, then move on.

We moved onto step 3, maybe skipping steps 1 and 2. I'm at step 4, haha.

You're at step 4? Yeah, I can see that.

Given they are now playable... is anybody going to Nottingham in the near future and could pick one for me? Long shot, I know

spubbbba wrote:Are they ever going to sell these models again?

Seems like a lot of drama for a couple of optional stars that only a minority of people have.

They will be on sale long-term, but only at the Warhammer World in Nottingham, England.

So, at the risk of just being awkward, has the pendulum swung too far the other way with the new rules for Grak & Crumbleberry?
Rolex calculated them at 280k when they were originally released. With the update, Grak drops a point of AG, both gain Loner and KTM gets nerfed, so probably a 20k skill now. That'd put their new value at 210k (I think: -40k for AG, -20k revaluing KTM and -10k for Loner) but they're now priced at 300k. Star Players typically are over-costed but I thought it was usually in the 10-20% region, this is more like 40%.

KTM now requires a Blitz action and landing location is now restricted to orthogonal and diagonal lines from the starting square of the kickee, based on the relative location of the kicker. Distance is randomly determined by either a 1D6 or 2D6 roll with doubles causing a Injury roll with Stuns treated as KOs. The Kickee will still scatter three times and the landing roll is modified by the distance roll (6+: -1, 9+: -2).

Not looking to criticise GW/James for the changes (in fact, credit is due to them for doing so), just interested in where this leaves the characters as usable players now. At the end of the day, inefficient Star Players that are rarely taken are less of an issue than game breaking Star Players that get abused. Can't help but think they got hit with the nerfhammer a little too hard though.

They look a bit too weak now yes. Or too expensive.

Vanguard wrote:So, at the risk of just being awkward, has the pendulum swung too far the other way with the new rules for Grak & Crumbleberry?
Rolex calculated them at 280k when they were originally released. With the update, Grak drops a point of AG, both gain Loner and KTM gets nerfed, so probably a 20k skill now. That'd put their new value at 210k (I think: -40k for AG, -20k revaluing KTM and -10k for Loner) but they're now priced at 300k. Star Players typically are over-costed but I thought it was usually in the 10-20% region, this is more like 40%.

KTM now requires a Blitz action and landing location is now restricted to orthogonal and diagonal lines from the starting square of the kickee, based on the relative location of the kicker. Distance is randomly determined by either a 1D6 or 2D6 roll with doubles causing a Injury roll with Stuns treated as KOs. The Kickee will still scatter three times and the landing roll is modified by the distance roll (6+: -1, 9+: -2).

Not looking to criticise GW/James for the changes (in fact, credit is due to them for doing so), just interested in where this leaves the characters as usable players now. At the end of the day, inefficient Star Players that are rarely taken are less of an issue than game breaking Star Players that get abused. Can't help but think they got hit with the nerfhammer a little too hard though.

I'd say that the value of the stars really depends on the team that hires them. Remember that these players are available to all teams, contrary to most stars. That means you need to calculate their value to a Khemri team that has no access to AG3 players like Crumbleberry as well as a High Elf team that has virtually no access to ST5 big guys. Not to mention the fact that they add the possibility of a one-turn TD to a wide variety of teams who did not have them before.

In light of that, yes -- they are priced conservatively, to ensure that they don't cause balance problems. I don't think that's a problem.

Glamdryn wrote:

JT-Y wrote:Update was written by James. Playtesters only helped with wording.

Funny story. They were always going to be updated but the more people get angry, call people names, use foul language, send abusive emails, and basically behave like they should be living in a field, the less likely they are to get what they want.

Imagine that eh.

Im gonna disagree with this entire post. Andy himself told me the rules were intentional and would not be changing. He was either lying or you are misinformed. People's minds can change and I'm glad that the rules were updated to reflect general consensus.

I'm going to split the middle. They probably weren't "always" going to be changed; I think there was a recognition that there were problems with the rules as they existed, but the clamshells with the rules inside had already been printed and packaged and there were multiple reasons that they didn't want to invalidate rules included in a flagship product they were selling.

But JT-Y is definitely right that discussions on how to fix G&C have been on the table for a long time, and we finally tackled that during James' last week on the job. In fact, it was something he felt strongly like he needed to do before he moved on. It's my understanding that the new rules will be printed and included in future packagings as well.

Milo wrote:It's my understanding that the new rules will be printed and included in future packagings as well.

Thats pretty awesome!

Sorry cant be reading all through this thread to find out:

New Kick team Mate skill, the airborne player can hit an opposing player on landing AND still end up on his feet himself, unlike TTM where they would both go down?

Grak
big guy player 5/5/2/9 (Loner), Negatrait=Bonehead(-0), Damage Skill=Mighty Blow(0) (160k) + Thick Skull(10k), rounding down the part over 100k = 130k

Kick Team-mate now should be 10-20k as it's counterpart Throw Team-mate is 10k.

Crumbleberry
Halfling(30k) + 30k = 60k

total:200~210k


The original AG3 on Grak is 40k + attr tax 10k, and the old KTM shoud be 10-20k more, making the total 260~280k.
Reducing stats and raising price at the same time, very GWish nerf blow. lulz