Register    Login    Forum    FAQ

Board index » General Discussion » General Chat




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 43 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Digger Goreman's Manifesto
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 8:27 pm 
Legend
Legend
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2006 4:30 am
Posts: 4826
Location: Atlanta, GA., USA: Recruiting the Walking Dead for the Blood Bowl Zombie Nation
Instead of qualifying my position repeatedly for new members (and to fill in the memory hole of older members) I present to you my (very occasionally updated) Blood Bowl Manifesto:

I began gaming in the summer of 1976. Having skillfully played a plethora of games from the simplicity of Metagames pocket editions to the novel sized rulebooks of SPI, as well as writing and playtesting for Avalon Hill's original Squad Leader.... So I feel I know what a balanced game and a well written rulebook look like....

What do I like about Blood Bowl: A lot of it is j' ne cest qua... (apologies to my french brothers for butchering the language) yet there is the melding of high fantasy with football... a tactically intricate game with elements of role playing and improvement for players and teams... miniatures that are active playing pieces that you get to express your talents... painting and playing with a team that matters and not just setting them in positions for a dungeon crawl (played D&D in the 70's and 80's and loved it too, but this is over the top of that easily!).... The dark humor, dry, witty and otherwise, certainly appeals to me.... While not being the biggest fan of american football, Lord of the Rings was my senior Brit Lit project....

I was/am also a huge fan of the Living Rulebook process.... My well beaten and worn Icepelt edition of the rules (Thanks again, my benefactor!) is one of my most favored treasures....

Love horror, love high fantasy, love gaming, love (oh so slowly and painfully) painting the minis, have gotten relatively good at playing while struggling to become even better....

Unfortunately there are flies in the ointment of the beautiful game and often enough people (sincerely or not) ask why one feels a certain way.... So that I don't spend the final bits of my knuckle cartilage retyping hot button topic reasoning, here are the explanations for future reference....

DG on Games Workshop: Greedy W@nkers is a corporate entity that trades stock and is beholden to its stockholders and their desire for dividends.... This easily runs anathema to the pursuit of happiness of its gaming fans.... Legion are the anecdotes and documents of pressure and contempt on the sales floor, nakedly seeking the dollar and pound through planned obsolescence of miniatures and brazen marketing to the weakest minded demographic with access to the richest, while using the same money that gamers pour into their coffers to hire lawyers to attack the gaming community (online and off).... Certainly I would be opposed to greedy on ideology (placing profit above the patrons it provides for) alone... but the situation got deeply personal when they attacked, and shut down, TalkBloodBowl forum.... The attack was imperious, threatening, and absolute. GW will never be forgiven for what they did that day.... In the process, gw also dissolved and placed gag orders on members of the BBRC, a rules committee that had been involved in a regular cycle of rules improvement.... While the committee members were not all fair and bipartisan, the process had created a body of rules leagues above and beyond the imperious, lunatic days of Jervis Johnson's reviled 4th edition.... Even greater a loss was the halted production of the imminent 6th edition rule book.... Only the end around of a fan provided the community with this resource.... Those who succor, aid or support games workshop are anywhere from delusional to criminal IMHO, bringing us to...

DG on sNAFu: Seemed like a good idea at first, before greedy Wendy went totally psycho, but the "tell" was in the special relationship brokered between the officers and gw.... Even when GW was forgetful, negligent, and even abusive during the Blood Bowl yearly tourneys, sNAFu was Chamberlain-esq in its apologies and kowtowing.... Although eventually kicked to the curb during the latest bloody I.P. purges/attacks, these Quislings still vocally kiss up to the corporate tyrant and seek every opportunity to crawl back in bed with her.... The picture becomes sharp and clear with the recent admittance of a current sNAFu officer owning Games Workshop stock.... The collusion of this Vichy organization can only be condemned for the cancerous disease that it is....

DG on the BBRC and LRB: The Blood Bowl Rules Committee, afaik, came into existence as jervis johnson's response to the plethora of house rules, in response to his disastrous fourth edition rule book, as exhibited by the OBERWALD website.... On the plus side, they enacted a two years cycle of rules review and testing that, despite in-game racial partisanship, produced a much better rulebook than the game's creator could have ever imagined.... The two down sides were jervis johnson's condescending use of king's prerogative to insert destabilization into the rules ("because I like it like that", see the Midgard website recorded messages of johnson)... and the aforementioned partisanship.... As I recall, any ruling had to be approved by 3/5 of the members and jj to make it official.... Three of the BBRC, including the last appointed (as a favor to his close friend already on the committee) swore to protect elves (especially wood elves) from any moderation....
That the tiny nerf-sans-nerf on woodies at the end of the BBRC passed is a tribute to Tom Anders management and diplomatic skills....

DG on team design: If you want to hang a mantra on the wall, let it be "same, but different".... Teams at similar TV should have the same chance of winning, based on coaching ability and team skill choices.... GW's penchant for unbalanced design, in the pursuit of selling more minis, is infamous.... While BB is hardly the vehicle for selling tons of lead, the disease is still there: favoritism and lazy design.... In short, any team that has starting access to more than eight non-linemen, spamming skills (especially the most useful ones and/or combinations), enhanced stat lines without liabilities, more than two of any positional, lineman access to more than general skills, ubiquitous Av9, and the ability to do anything on a 2+, is likely BAD design.... In second edition, only specialized catchers had access to Ag4 and in limited numbers.... Third edition spammed Ag4 on all elves and started the still irreconcilable schism of grinders vs avoidance teams wherein the only way to defeat a competently coached avoidance team is to roll consistently high on your few available armor breaks (removing players through extraordinary luck), or the avoidance coach rolls so many ones that even an advantaged team fails (i.e., extraordinary BAD luck).... Watching cigarette butts decompose is more exciting.... Only slightly less boring is trying to stop the Av9 cage grinding of dwarves, or the block spamming of dwarves, chaos dwarves and norse (at least block dice fail more than elven dodge dice)....

DG on Undead: I came to coach Necros by accident.... I was primarily an Orc coach.... Upon starting a league, I played the new Necros team since they were considered tier 1.5.... Luckily for me, their in-between style matched my playstyle.... That, the ability to share minis, and a love of traditional horror media carried me into the other undead teams.... Nevertheless, the current straight Undead could at least shave off two ghouls and redesign/reconsider the mummies.... And I am still unconvinced as to the worth of the khemri design.... Better to give the Necros access to skeletons and jettison the other two, along with elves, dwarves, lizards, amazons, Norse, and slann....

DG on FUMBBL and tournaments: After hours of consideration, deliberation, and dialogue, I must admit that both environments are artificial compared to the rules.... While not qualifying as mainstream, they do have a place in the community and provide (limited) positive services.... Although mechanics still don't match the rules exactly, Fumbbl does provide an easier and faster way to have a game, even vs opponents half a world apart.... Tournaments are limited to those of means and inevitably fail to provide an equitable environment.... Neither can be trusted to provide accurate data for the mainstream rule book, yet they have unwisely been used for just that purpose....

DG on forum(s): In a recent poll I conducted, it became readily apparent that any two people are unlikely to play the same format, let alone the same rules of Blood Bowl.... Even an official optional rule like assigned MVPs have a huge effect on team construction... let alone widely divergent scheduling, ignoring time and I.P., and a plethora of house rulings while maintaining (often with self-righteous zeal) an extremist sense of right and wrong.... My gratitude to the one percent that try to scrape off the manure of opinions, including theirs, before addressing and answering a question.... It is a rare talent.... Long story, short: few of us look past our own belly buttons when addressing each other and the great game.... Unfortunately it is easier to set fire to a straw man than to consider another's POV....

More to come as needed....

_________________
LRB6/Icepelt Edition: Ah!, when Blood Bowl made sense....
GW attacked the community;
NAF supports GW;
elF them both!


Last edited by Digger Goreman on Mon Mar 09, 2015 11:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Digger Goreman's Manifesto
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 8:42 pm 
Kommissar Enthusiasmoff
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 11:24 am
Posts: 5335
Location: Swindon, England
:o

_________________
NAF President
Founder of SAWBBL, Swindon and Wiltshire's BB League @ sawbbl.uk
Image


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Digger Goreman's Manifesto
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 9:08 pm 
Experienced
Experienced

Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2011 10:03 pm
Posts: 109
So what do you like about Blood Bowl?


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Digger Goreman's Manifesto
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 9:35 pm 
Da Spammer
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 12, 2002 10:04 pm
Posts: 23435
Location: Fundamentaling for the BB Illuminati
One or two good points concealed within lines and lines of utter twaddle.

_________________
"I survived the 525!"
ARBBL 2017 Stunty Cup winner - even if I didn't get a chuffin' trophy!
SAWBBowl I Runner Up - with Vamps!
Block of Holding Runner Up *shakes fist at 20phoenix*


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Digger Goreman's Manifesto
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 9:50 pm 
Emerging Star
Emerging Star
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2014 6:56 pm
Posts: 419
Location: Ohio, USA
I've never been a nailer-upper of manifestos, but if I had one, it would probably include the suggestion that anybody who plays a game like Blood Bowl is probably somebody that I have more in common with than I have differences with.

As such, I try to find better targets for rage, spite, and denigration.

Keep it light, with a good beat I can dance to, everybody! :wink:

_________________
I was Puzzlemonkey, but now I'm Wifflebat. Please forward my mail...


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Digger Goreman's Manifesto
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 10:05 pm 
Legend
Legend
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 3:59 pm
Posts: 5700
Location: The Fast Lane
You want to scrap half the teams? and hate the way the game is played?
Is you ideal match Necro vs Necro?

I think I agree with Mike, :o

_________________
Image

The Exiles Blood Bowl League and Tournaments use the Icepelt rulebook, for complete BB rules and fluff. Download here.
SW England Regional Co-ordinator for the NAF lunchmoney@thenaf.net
@Lunchmoney_Al for me @ExilesBBLeague for #TeamExiles news


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Digger Goreman's Manifesto
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 10:16 pm 
Experienced
Experienced

Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2012 3:07 am
Posts: 76
I read the first line and thought it was a little too "self important" for me so stopped.......

Why would you think anyone on here cares about your manifesto? Are we all meant to write one? Did I miss a TFF homework assignment?


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Digger Goreman's Manifesto
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 10:22 pm 
Super Star
Super Star

Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2011 10:46 pm
Posts: 863
...

I was considering an actual response, but it's just not worth it :|


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Digger Goreman's Manifesto
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 10:27 pm 
Ex-Mega Star, now just a Super Star
Ex-Mega Star, now just a Super Star
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 26, 2005 11:10 am
Posts: 1648
Location: Bristol, UK
Dr. Von Richten wrote:
...

I was considering an actual response, but it's just not worth it :|


+1

_________________
Time flies like an arrow, Fruit flies like a banana.
Image


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Digger Goreman's Manifesto
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 10:52 pm 
Legend
Legend
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2010 10:27 pm
Posts: 2274
Location: Nashville, TN
In my mind you now sound like Comic Book Guy. So I quite enjoyed it.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Digger Goreman's Manifesto
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 11:05 pm 
Kommissar Enthusiasmoff
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 11:24 am
Posts: 5335
Location: Swindon, England
In all seriousness though (to expand on my eloquently argued previous point), I can't help but think that Digger is one of the reasons some people avoid TFF. It's a shame, really.

_________________
NAF President
Founder of SAWBBL, Swindon and Wiltshire's BB League @ sawbbl.uk
Image


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Digger Goreman's Manifesto
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 11:08 pm 
Da Spammer
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 12, 2002 10:04 pm
Posts: 23435
Location: Fundamentaling for the BB Illuminati
No, no, no - that's me.

_________________
"I survived the 525!"
ARBBL 2017 Stunty Cup winner - even if I didn't get a chuffin' trophy!
SAWBBowl I Runner Up - with Vamps!
Block of Holding Runner Up *shakes fist at 20phoenix*


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Digger Goreman's Manifesto
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 11:09 pm 
Kommissar Enthusiasmoff
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 11:24 am
Posts: 5335
Location: Swindon, England
sann0638 wrote:
one of the reasons


;)

_________________
NAF President
Founder of SAWBBL, Swindon and Wiltshire's BB League @ sawbbl.uk
Image


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Digger Goreman's Manifesto
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 11:15 pm 
Da Spammer
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 12, 2002 10:04 pm
Posts: 23435
Location: Fundamentaling for the BB Illuminati
Phew, thought I'd lost my crown. :D

_________________
"I survived the 525!"
ARBBL 2017 Stunty Cup winner - even if I didn't get a chuffin' trophy!
SAWBBowl I Runner Up - with Vamps!
Block of Holding Runner Up *shakes fist at 20phoenix*


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Digger Goreman's Manifesto
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 11:27 pm 
Legend
Legend
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2006 4:30 am
Posts: 4826
Location: Atlanta, GA., USA: Recruiting the Walking Dead for the Blood Bowl Zombie Nation
Hung Donkeyman wrote:
So what do you like about Blood Bowl?


Thank You for a good and penetrating question.... Wanting to hit the hot button topics immediately, it would seem that way.... :) My only defense/explanation is that I assumed anyone, including me, would love the game if they were on the forum... so...:

A lot of it is j' ne cest qua... (apologies to my french brothers for butchering the language) yet there is the melding of high fantasy with football... a tactically intricate game with elements of role playing and improvement for players and teams... miniatures that are active playing pieces that you get to express your talents... painting and playing with a team that matters and not just setting them in positions for a dungeon crawl (played D&D in the 70's and 80's and loved it too, but this is over the top of that easily!).... The dark humor, dry, witty and otherwise, certainly appeals to me.... While not being the biggest fan of american football, Lord of the Rings was my senior Brit Lit project....

I was/am also a huge fan of the Living Rulebook process.... My well beaten and worn Icepelt edition of the rules (Thanks again, my benefactor!) is one of my most favored treasures....

Love horror, love high fantasy, love gaming, love (oh so slowly and painfully) painting the minis, have gotten relatively good at playing while struggling to become even better....

Wrote the manifesto as a marker for directing those who misquote and mis-assume... and just dismiss because it doesn't match their dream.... Someone once asked why I don't like the NAF, well, instead of reexplaining it, I can just point them to this thread.... Looking up the word, a Manifesto is an explanation of where one "is coming from".... So, there it is....

Thanks again for the clarifying Q....

_________________
LRB6/Icepelt Edition: Ah!, when Blood Bowl made sense....
GW attacked the community;
NAF supports GW;
elF them both!


Top 
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
 
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 43 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

Board index » General Discussion » General Chat


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Barney the Lurker

 
 

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to: