Fof those of you who don't think the Undead will change

[Colin]

I just received an order from GWMO Canada that contained some stuff I got to give as Xmas presents, as well there was a TROLL monthly mail order magazine inside. To my surprise there was a BB section in it with a listing of all the teams available. Here's what they had listed for the Undead Blood Bowl Team;

1 Ghoul 1
2 Ghouls 2
2 Wights 1
1 Wight 2
1 Frank N' Stein
1 Werewolf
2 Zombies 1
2 Zombies 2
2 Skeletons 1
2 Skeletons 2
$70.00 US/$90.00CDN

As you may notice there are no mummies and they have been replace with flesh golem and werewolf, so it is safe to say that if this is what GW is selling as the Undead team, then it is pretty much a given that the undead will be divided into the 3 new experimental undead teams and be made official next rules review. BTW, I don't know why they have 4 skellies in the set, since they are not used in the Necro undead lineup (which this obviously is suppossed to be), they should take those out and put the price down (the average BB teams have 11-12 figs for $45.00 US/ $60.00 CDN).

[kaboom]

i like frank'n'stein.

[Ghost of Pariah]

Because the playtesting will show it to be balanced....uh huh. Like I said, they don't give a crap about what is good for the game. They want to sell minis.

[Geggster]

I like Frank N Stein as well as a model.

Of course, if you don't like this new undead team, you could always not play them and leave them to those that want to.

And I for one don't mind GW trying to make a profit. They aren't a charity but even if they were, how much does it cost any of us to play? Not a fat lot IMO. GW didn't need to set up Fanatic so can we cut the "GW are only in it for themselves" rubbish.

[Quilwood]

I for one think the new Undead split isn't that bad. The Necro team is fine exept it feels kinda funny with that 1 werewolf stuck on the end of the roster. The Khemri are fine and I have no trouble beating them even with there 4 mummies. The vampire team on the other hand is way underpriced. If you look up one of those BB price guidelines it shows the vamps are like 30K underpriced each.

[Ghost of Pariah]

Okay if it's not only about selling minis then why is the old team being retired? Why can't both exist? The old Undead team is playetested and balanced. They are enjoyed by ALOT of coaches (myself included) and a large majority of coaches don't want to see it retired. Why can't they both be official? Because then GW couldn't force the current Undead coaches to update their minis. As soon as the sell off the stock of 2nd edition minis the old Undead team will comeback.

So before you call my opinion rubbish why don't you ask yourself why GW is doing something incredibly unpopular? The have an excess of Frank N. Stein and Wilhem Chaney minis. Plain and simple.

[CauCauCau]

Gw has demonstrated it's willingness to outdate it's own minis-- remember the change from 2nd to 3rd ed of 40k? There were LOTS of outdated/changed minis from that one.

Anyway, I hope they don't retire the old undead team-- but even if they do, they'll still be allowed by many, many leagues and coaches. I think I shall write fanatic about this.

Nathan

[Geggster]

All I'm saying is that I get fed up with people (in general - not just this evening) complaining that everything done is to make money out of us. "Those money grabbing capitalists" repeat to fade...

I like the old undead team, I like the new necromantic team (although I think the werewolf is a little out of place). I'd rather they had both available but if they get rid of the old one to bring in three new ones (and therefore two new sets of figures) then maybe, just maybe, it isn't a cynical attempt to extract money out of us and a sign that they are trying to improve our choice.

As far as I can see, Fanatics involvement in the game over the last 18 months or so has had a direct effect of producing a massive increase in popularity. And why is this? Because they are providing us with several new teams and a twist on sone old ones. I really don't begrudge them making a little money on some spare Frank N Steins (at £2 a shot) to pay Jervis, Andy et al, so they can continue to bring us more Bloodbowl stuff.

Just my two cents tho.

[Grumbledook]

I would rather spend money on getting teams for races i don't own, not having to get flesh golems for my undead team. Also they can increase the range of choice more by adding 3 new teams and leaving the old ones there. I see no reason why they can't leave the old undead in as well as adding the new ones.

I have played undead for ages and I don't want to have to give the team up because they are made unofficial. I won't change to the the new ones instead of for a while either, I will just use one of the other races instead.

[Deathwing]

GW is a limited company. It exists to make money and turn a profit for the shareholders. Fanatic is a small cog in a large machine, and BB is not that great a money maker in the grand scheme of things. Fanatic have done great things for this game, and I doubt very much that AndyH or JJ are on any kind of 'pricework' as far as BB is concerned.
GW is a vast multi-national corporation that exists to turn maximum profit. The sooner everybody accepts that fact the better. So the money men run GW? Will that matter when Bugman's is jammed packed at the BB with coaches from all over the world having a beer, a laugh and talking BB? I'll tell you one thing, I'm not going to be standing listening to somebody bitching about the way the Khemri are packaged or that the Lizards aren't in the new rulebook and how we're all being ripped off.
Nobody's forcing anybody to play BB at the end of the day.

[Grumbledook]

Really i have nuffle pointing a gun to my head ;]

I only bitch on here, not when i am in a bar.... drinking cola :p

[Mojoshenpo]

... but it's not about just making a profit, but how it's made (if I'm reading him right). Marketing says a lot about your product and how you think about your customers. The packaging says cheap ; the prices say expensive ; and the recycling of old minis, contents of "boosters" (and just their existence ), and obsolescence of a tried and true team shows a casual contempt ....

It's a testimony to the game that I like it despite it's parent company!

[Ghost of Pariah]

Yeah exactly.

I don't think JJ or Andy are sitting around crunching numbers. I think it's handed down from higher up.

Hey maybe I'd feel different if GW put any effort into Blood Bow for the USA. While you sit back and wait for BB Mag #5 remember that I haven't even seen #3 yet and no stores around here can get the new stuff because GW has made it so difficult. My only option is to order from GWUK, pay outrageous shipping charges, send it back cuz they fouled up my order and pay even more shipping.

Yeah it's great that there's been 2 big tournies on the other side of the planet from me. Yeah it's great that there are new Blood Bowl mags that will cost me $20 bucks cuz I live in America.

Yea! Rah. I'm so happy.

[sturmjarl]

Yeah,
It IS kind of tough in the US, ESPECIALLY the Southeast where there are NO GW stores. I "usually" side against big business and GW for a lot of their business practices-including dropping ALL of their large format games in favor of their "specialist games" (Blood bowl, Mordheim and Necromunda in particular). I have collected mostly GW figs but I will NOT pay full retail for them any longer (trade, Ebay, or cons) and mostly buy non-GW figs to convert. I plan on using Vampire Wars Flesh Golems.
In these arguements-YES-repackaged Undead team is too large and too much money.
3 undead teams is a mixed blessing in mirroring WHFB-but neccessary to drum up fans of Fantasy to play Blood Bowl (not too many WHFB players in the Southeast AT ALL so I guess this is marketed more towards Europe)
All 3 undead teams need some tweeking still before becoming official
Werewolf is COOL but should be 2 on roster
ALL BOOSTERS BAD-it seems they took a page out of Whizkids Mechwarrior or something (and I LIKE that game!!)
I DO NOT believe GW put in Flesh Golems and Werewolves just to push backstock. I believe they actually pulled the old molds out of retirement to fullfill figure needs (shame they won't bring ALL the 2nd ed. figs back -something that is kind of surprising considering how long some collectors have been waiting for certain figs for GW core games. If anything, the backstock would go right back into the melting pot.
As I mentioned earlier I DO NOT like most of GW's marketing, BUT Blood Bowl fans (and some of the other specialist games) have been pretty fortunate these last 2 years considering GW's past support history-as in NO SUPPORT That being said-I will NOT be buying another BB Boxset ($70 ) to get rules which GW made 98% of available to download free. I am fortunate to have almost all the figs I need or want-and I WILL buy the previous edition boxset eventually at a reduced price somewhere to run multiple demos (I have 1 boxset & 2 Dungeonbowl sets already) to try to drum up new players when I can because this is my VERY Favorite GW game.

[sean newboy]

Actually Sturmjarl, u and i are just on the wrong side of the state. WFB is very big in Fort Meyers and the Tampa area and there is even a thriving Bloodbowl league.