Should CDs have been given Mutation access?

[JaM]

Dammit, wanted to click the 'pie' option...

Guess I like clicking stuff way too much.

click here

[Ithilkir]

Dont have the book right in front of me but got what I originally wrote for the last version of the background (so may have changed slightly here and there)

It is not only man that can be corrupted and twisted by the taint of chaos. A long time ago in the distant past some Dwarfs moved northwards into the Great Skull Lands and then south along the Mountains of Mourn. These explorers were undoubtedly the ancestors of the Chaos Dwarfs. The great influx of Chaos has since worked terrifying changes on their bodies and souls, turning them into evil, self-centered creatures. In one way, however, they haven't changed at all – Chaos Dwarfs still love playing Blood Bowl.

Basically when the lore was brought upto date it was decided to move the CD's back toward the 2nd edition CD's that were basically just mutated dwarves that worshipped chaos, however we kept them with the Hashut lore and appearance that appeared in 3rd edition to appease both camps of CD fluff nuts. The vast majority of BB fluffers preferred the 2nd edition look, feel and style of Blood Bowl and so a lot of the WHFB links that got introduced were reverted or moved towards the 2nd edition (IE Stormvermin and Dragon Warriors moving back to positional names).

BB is NOT WHFB, two very different worlds. This is from my old FAQ from the Lore of NUffle:

Q) So what world is Blood Bowl based in? Warhammer, 40k, earth?
A) Well, contrary to popular belief none of the above. Blood Bowl exists in it's own alternative Warhammer Fantasy universe, one where chainsaws, grenades and Chaos can find themselves welcomed into the middle of Altdorf. And that's straight from Jervis's mouth.

Note that it's alternative, not parralel so they didn't diverge from one point but they're completely seperate entities.

[MattDakka]

Dont have the book right in front of me but got what I originally wrote for the last version of the background (so may have changed slightly here and there)

It is not only man that can be corrupted and twisted by the taint of chaos. A long time ago in the distant past some Dwarfs moved northwards into the Great Skull Lands and then south along the Mountains of Mourn. These explorers were undoubtedly the ancestors of the Chaos Dwarfs. The great influx of Chaos has since worked terrifying changes on their bodies and souls, turning them into evil, self-centered creatures. In one way, however, they haven't changed at all – Chaos Dwarfs still love playing Blood Bowl.

Basically when the lore was brought upto date it was decided to move the CD's back toward the 2nd edition CD's that were basically just mutated dwarves that worshipped chaos, however we kept them with the Hashut lore and appearance that appeared in 3rd edition to appease both camps of CD fluff nuts. The vast majority of BB fluffers preferred the 2nd edition look, feel and style of Blood Bowl and so a lot of the WHFB links that got introduced were reverted or moved towards the 2nd edition (IE Stormvermin and Dragon Warriors moving back to positional names).

BB is NOT WHFB, two very different worlds. This is from my old FAQ from the Lore of NUffle:

Q) So what world is Blood Bowl based in? Warhammer, 40k, earth?
A) Well, contrary to popular belief none of the above. Blood Bowl exists in it's own alternative Warhammer Fantasy universe, one where chainsaws, grenades and Chaos can find themselves welcomed into the middle of Altdorf. And that's straight from Jervis's mouth.

Note that it's alternative, not parralel so they didn't diverge from one point but they're completely seperate entities.

Thanks for explanation!
May you explain why the Chaos mutations are not random, please? From a fluff perspective sounds so wrong and illogical.

[Ithilkir]

Ideally they would be, but for game balance reasons they're not, however by all accounts house rule them in, just make sure you include teleportation and temporal instability *POP*

Seriously though, please note that I didn't do anything for the current rules I just wrote some of the fluff so my reasons for them not being random are entirely my opinion, not fact.

[MattDakka]

Ideally they would be, but for game balance reasons they're not, however by all accounts house rule them in, just make sure you include teleportation and temporal instability *POP*

Seriously though, please note that I didn't do anything for the current rules I just wrote some of the fluff so my reasons for them not being random are entirely my opinion, not fact.

Thanks for your response, but honestly, for Chaos Dwarfs, the balance reason explanation seems not to fit.
They are good enough even without Claw.
A different world that clearly takes a lot of inspiration from WHFB, a huge imagination effort by JJ , well done. He didn't even bother to change Chaos god names, no wonder that people is confused!

[dode74]

They are good enough even without Claw.

Really? Where's the data?

[MattDakka]

They are good enough even without Claw.

Really? Where's the data?

Really.
Just play with them/against them for a while, you'll see.
One of the CRP easy-mode teams in a perpetual league.
No wonder they are one of the most popular in BlackBox.

[Wanchor]

No wonder they are one of the most popular in BlackBox.

Because they get Claw in reasonably large numbers, but less than Nurgle or Chaos? I'm not sure I understand the point of this thread anymore.

[Dave]

Completely OT: Ithilkir ... man where do you come from ?

[Darkson]

Fife, Scotland according to his profile.

[dode74]

They are good enough even without Claw.

Really? Where's the data?

Really.
Just play with them/against them for a while, you'll see.
One of the CRP easy-mode teams in a perpetual league.
No wonder they are one of the most popular in BlackBox.

Experience != stats. Data is what I asked for, not your humble opinion

[Ithilkir]

Fife, Scotland according to his profile.

Alternatively I lurk in the dark halls of TBB .. err. TFF waiting to post something when needed I'll jump out the dark corners post in a thread then dissapear again for a few months

[MattDakka]

Experience != stats. Data is what I asked for, not your humble opinion

http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=blackbox
Does BlackBox Win Rating measure the actual win rate of teams? Or is it just a CR average of coaches playing that kind of race?
Chaos Dwarfs have BWR 154.46, Wood Elves (the best overall, if I didn't check it wrong) 156.98.
Chaos Dwarfs have one of the highest BWR.

[dode74]

I've no idea how BWR is calculated, but I see that CDs are below skaven, amazons, WE and pact. Seems to be that they're not that high even with claw access. How low would you like them to be?

I'm ignoring the fling score which puts them second

[MattDakka]

I've no idea how BWR is calculated, but I see that CDs are below skaven, amazons, WE and pact. Seems to be that they're not that high even with claw access. How low would you like them to be?

I guess that BWR is an average of BWR of all the coaches playing a specified race.
BWR 150 is the starting CR for BlackBox, wins increase it, losses decrease it.
They have to be a tier 1 team, obviously, but my point was that they are a strong team and Claw is an overkill. We should have data for no-Claw Chaos Dwarfs as well, in order to compare the BWR, but this is impossible.