If only they hadn't released Von Drakenborg....

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Sat Nov 09, 2002 5:51 pm

Mestari wrote:Let's hope so. However, it could be that we get only one shot at officially fixing the team, so I'd rather have them to be more handicapped, just to be on the safe side.

Tell you what Mestari we could both create a two teams with starting cash of 1,250,000, you take COFAB Vamps and we could see what you think if you want to try a PBeM match with them (I'll set up the game and rosters for us). I say 1,250 because that way you could start with 4 Vampires and the Lord. I'll use any of the official 15 teams (not including the Stunties), you can pick or if you don't care I'll take Orcs.

This would allow you to try the team yourself against someone who thinks it already is okay. If you have the ability to test the team against a real life opponent in your area, give it a try. What I'm trying to say is the playtesting so far say they are okay, and you are still speaking in theoritics. I'd be more interested in your opinion after seeing the rules in action.

Galak

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Sat Nov 09, 2002 5:56 pm

Mestari wrote:Now that I think of it... the fact that Khemri are so powerful could indeed be an attempt to sell those freshly released figs better.

Sorry I just need to head off this conspiracy theory. The person to ultimately blame for the Khemri team is Elvis Lancaster. His article about the Khemri team was originally published in Citadel Journal #37 way back in 2000.
http://www.midgardbb.com/BBMagArticles/FreshGrave.html

That team was lifted stat wise VERBATIM into Blood Bowl Magazine #1. The team was then just tweaked to try to take care of the overly powerful Tomb Guardians in the newest edition and the price of the Mummies was increased.

This is not a conspiracy. If you want to becry the Khemri team, then find Elvis's email address somehow and send him your complaints. The Khemri started as a fan idea and haven't changed much since the original suggestion.

Galak

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Sat Nov 09, 2002 8:11 pm

So they're basing an official team on a fans suggestion? Did it have sufficient play-testing at any level, or did they just assume Mr. Lancaster had done it?

Maybe I ought to finish of the Spyrer team draft

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Sat Nov 09, 2002 8:40 pm

Darkson wrote:So they're basing an official team on a fans suggestion? Did it have sufficient play-testing at any level, or did they just assume Mr. Lancaster had done it?

Actually Darkson, in BB Mag #1, the Snotling, Bretonnian, and Khemri teams all came from fans articles in the Citadel Journal. JJ said and I can find the quote if I have to in an on-line Chat session (the recorded details on my site) that they NEVER tested these 3 rosters. They looked good and balanced to him so they included them in BB Mag #1 .... the rest is history.

So yah, work on that Spyrer team .... although I hope the Half-Orc and Slann teams are in line ahead of you at the end of the day ...

Galak

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Sat Nov 09, 2002 8:45 pm

Isn't this a dangerous precedent to set though, the "roster looked balanced so we ran with it"? Admittedly, I'm sure these guys have learned to see the "power level" of the teams they receive, but surely 1 or 2 "sleepers" can get through, teams that look OK but are flawed.

Dragoonkin · Post by **Dragoonkin** » Sun Nov 10, 2002 12:06 am

I want the robot team off Galak's site.

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Sun Nov 10, 2002 12:56 am

Dragoonkin wrote:I want the robot team off Galak's site.

Dragoonkin ... that's one REALLY tough team to coach under the LRB rules. In fact right now no one in either the WBBL, MBBL2, or WBBJ-L (which all allow the Robot team) has a coach playing the Robot team.

Anyone who looks at that roster sees only the "abuse" possibilities... trust me get your local commish to allow the team and then decide how broken it is.

That team is one of the very very very few teams that Zombie and I "worked" on "together" to create. Zombie created most of the rules and then I refined them based on some league testing.

Galak

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Sun Nov 10, 2002 1:07 am

Darkson wrote:Isn't this a dangerous precedent to set though, the "roster looked balanced so we ran with it.

AND THIS is why we now have the BBRC. JJ and his bathtub just proved a very dangerous way to create rules and teams for Blood Bowl.

I have to be honest the last roster that JJ made or included into the rules that I like is the Amazon roster in BB Mag #1. All the other new rosters from BB Mag #1 to present I've had some major problems with .... in case anyone has forgotten which teams that would include Brettonian, Snotling, 4 Daemons, Khemri, Necromantic, and Vampire.

I have my opinions on balanced version of all of these rosters that would actually work. I like the Snotling and Daemon teams used in the MBBL2 (I've seen a sneak peak of a BBRC Snotling team that I liked as well). I like the MBBL Necromantic and Vampire teams. The Khemri ... well ME I'd like to see the Blitz-Ra and the Thro-Ras have AG 2 ... then I'd be happy with the Khemri team as well.

Galak

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Sun Nov 10, 2002 1:15 am

Any more sneak previews you'd like to let us in on?

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Sun Nov 10, 2002 1:47 am

Darkson wrote:Any more sneak previews you'd like to let us in on?

Not yet

Galak

Zombie · Post by **Zombie** » Sun Nov 10, 2002 8:53 am

GalakStarscraper wrote:That team is one of the very very very few teams that Zombie and I "worked" on "together" to create. Zombie created most of the rules and then I refined them based on some league testing.

Give credit where credit is due. The base idea was from someone else. Then Bevan and i worked together to bring it down to acceptable standard, trying to keep it still interesting (and adding new concepts along the way). All of the changes you made after that were to bring the team back up after we brought it down, so of course i don't agree with them.

But i just wanted to say that i didn't do that much work on it. I'm only a small part of the equation.

Oh, and to be fair, since i'm bashing your modifications, here's my analysis of the situation:

Code: Select all

Starting team:

Qty  Position          MA ST AG AV  Skills  Cost  Access
 1   Blocker            5  4  3  9  Dodge   120k  G,S,A
 1   Defensive thrower  5  3  4  9  Pass    110k  G,P,A
 3   Catcher            7  2  4  9  None    300k  G,A
 3   Lineman            5  3  1  9  None    150k  G
 4   Cheap labor        5  3  1  6  None     80k  G
 9 FF 90k
 3 RR 150k
Total cost 1000k

Dream team:

Qty  Position          MA ST AG AV  Skills   Cost  Access     ST AG mod
 1   Blocker            8  5  1  9  No arms  130k  G,S         3  0  9
 1   Blocker            6  5  1  9  Dodge    125k  G,S,A       3  0  9
 1   Blocker            5  4  3  9  Dodge    120k  G,S,A       2  2  9
 1   Offensive thrower  7  2  4  8  Pass     105k  G,P,A       0  3  9
 1   Defensive thrower  5  3  4  9  Pass     110k  G,P,A       1  3  9
 2   Runner             6  4  3  8  Catch    240k  G,S,A       4  4  9
 2   Blitzer            6  3  4  8  Block    240k  G,S,A       2  6  9
 4   Catcher            7  2  4  9  None     400k  G,A         0 12  9
 3   Reserve            8  2  1  9  No arms  210k  G           0  0  6
Total                                       1680k             15 30

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Sun Nov 10, 2002 12:50 pm

All of the changes you made after that were to bring the team back up after we brought it down, so of course i don't agree with them.

Funny, if the Locker Room had a search engine I'd pull up the quote where you said just the exact opposite a little over a 1 year ago.

Oh, and to be fair, since i'm bashing your modifications, here's my analysis of the situation:

What followed was Zombie listing a wonderful dream team that is impossible to build under the LRB cash tables.

Galak

sean newboy · Post by **sean newboy** » Sun Nov 10, 2002 1:25 pm

I think if Zombie wants to prove his bashing, he should use the one legal robot team in a league and tell us how it did. Or better yet get another coach to play it.

Mestari · Post by **Mestari** » Sun Nov 10, 2002 2:20 pm

GalakStarscraper wrote: What I'm trying to say is the playtesting so far say they are okay, and you are still speaking in theoritics. I'd be more interested in your opinion after seeing the rules in action.

Even though I could argue about the amount of playtesting done (and talk about Pariah's disagreement of the playtesting results), I have to admit that this is a valid point. I have a big exam on friday, but I'll download the pbem tool next weekend and see if I can get the hang of it... I'll get back to you on that.

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Sun Nov 10, 2002 4:12 pm

Mestari wrote:Even though I could argue about the amount of playtesting done (and talk about Pariah's disagreement of the playtesting results), I have to admit that this is a valid point. I have a big exam on friday, but I'll download the pbem tool next weekend and see if I can get the hang of it... I'll get back to you on that.

Very cool, if you get the PBeM on your machine let me know and we'll give it a run ... and just for the record ... Pariah's negative comments were about the Old World team not the Vampire team. No negative comments have been given to date from folks that have played with the COFAB rules.

Galak