Beware the GW legal team

CyberHare · Post by **CyberHare** » Mon Nov 04, 2002 1:32 pm

So I got ahold of Andy and he couldn't say much, legal issues and all. What he did have to say about them can be found at http://www.house-rulez.com (ok so that was a shameless plug).

As far as making an official online version of the game goes, well I'd have to say I'm firmly on the fence. I'd like to be able to play online with a great app, 3D graphics and all. But I wouldn't want to see online playing take away from the "In your face and across the table" play that we have now. Especially considering the good number of tournaments that are popping up now. The comp game would have to be very versatile at any rate as it would have to accept a vast array of house rules to be usefull.

Ithilkir · Post by **Ithilkir** » Mon Nov 04, 2002 2:02 pm

I'm certainly FOR utilitys that allow you to play the game online. Living literally in the middle of no-where these days and with my old gaming group long since gone it would be (and is, I'm in a small league run on SkiJunkies client) a joy to play.

I also wish for the day I can play Necromunda, Warhammer Quest and Warhammer FB online against other people, whether using an official client or a fan made one...

Lucien Swift · Post by **Lucien Swift** » Mon Nov 04, 2002 2:10 pm

you kids are trolling for another of toby's rants, you realize this, of course...

and personally, i'm not sure i'm in favor of the electronic form of the game... don't get me wrong, i appreciate that there are people out there who can't play otherwise, i'm occassionally one of them, but to say that there should be an official version with all the bells and whistles tempts the dissolution of the tabletop game... and i'm just one of those crazy people who thinks it is the miniatures that are important, and playing with them accross teh table from a real person, in real time, in a real room that's important.

feel free to insult me now, criticise my math skills, or my artistic talents, this is one of those days where i just don't really care.

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Mon Nov 04, 2002 2:39 pm

Lucien Swift wrote:and i'm just one of those crazy people who thinks it is the miniatures that are important, and playing with them accross teh table from a real person, in real time, in a real room that's important.

Agreed Lucien ... even though I program the PBeM tool ... as you know from my collection ... this is a mini game .. I like getting my BB fix online, but nothing beats tabletop play.

Galak

Helian · Post by **Helian** » Mon Nov 04, 2002 5:38 pm

Lucien Swift wrote:i'm occassionally one of them, but to say that there should be an official version with all the bells and whistles tempts the dissolution of the tabletop game...

But what exactly is the problem with that? I play BB for fun, not as some sacrificial practice to the boardgame/tabletop/GW gods. Besides, even if GW did come out with a digital version of the game, would that stop everyone out there from playing the game on a table on friday night with all your friends and as many beers as possible? Of course not. If anything, it would dramatically increase the number of potential players who understand the rules of the game. (This is assuming that the rules were consistently ported)
I see nothing but advantages to having BB on disk. The most obvious being the ability to find players easily. I suspect that the game play would be much faster, although I have never played any of the previously mentioned online tools. The project wouldn't really be that big of a deal either. At least not in comparison to some of the massive video games that are being produced these days. Blood Bowl would be tiny in comparison to say NeverWinter Nights, or even some of the older X-com games. (I mention X-com because they are somewhat similar to BB in that they are turn based and involve moving little guys around a grid board.)
One of the previous posters hit it on the head, however, when they said that GW's bread and butter is mini's and other add-ons. They seem kind of rigidly set on this. What would happen, though, if they actually produced a high-quality video game based on their excellent world. (Be it fantasy, 40K, BB, etc...) I don't consider any of the games they have produced so far to be of high quality, with the possible exception of Chaos Gate. Most of them were impossibly buggy, generally behind the times in technology and appearance, and stunted in replayability.
I think that if they made a high quality product it would be very popular and would increase the currently small pool (at least in my area)of table top miniature players.

Helian

sean newboy · Post by **sean newboy** » Mon Nov 04, 2002 6:38 pm

Does laser squad work as well as the old X com series? So they actually did produce the Gorrka Morka?

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Mon Nov 04, 2002 6:40 pm

Helian wrote: I see nothing but advantages to having BB on disk. The most obvious being the ability to find players easily. I suspect that the game play would be much faster, although I have never played any of the previously mentioned online tools.

SkiJunkie's program and the PBeM are both pretty good fan based programs for automation. You should look at them at some point. I'm told Towl Bowl is very automated also, but I haven't tried it yet.

The project wouldn't really be that big of a deal either.

Heh ... yah, not that big a deal .... suuuurrrreeeee. I'm sure Ski would agree with me that "little" rulebook is a major pain in the butt to program. I think any true simulator would actually need a lot of work. You never realize the variables involved with BB until you start trying to emulate it. Yeah, yeah, NeverWinter Nights, etc, etc. those have a large team of developers because of expected sales. I'd be suprised if a GW BB game would much better results than the original PC game. Unless GW hired one of the writers of the current online automated tools, I'm thinking it would be VERY, VERY buggy. Its the little thing like the 2nd block of a Horns blitz against a Stand Firm player that make programming a major pain.

Galak

Lucien Swift · Post by **Lucien Swift** » Mon Nov 04, 2002 6:46 pm

i think a good digital version would certainly increase the headcount of people out there playing bb, and i'm absolutely positive it would reduce the number of people who play tabletop because i've seen it happen with strategic gaming... i remember back int he mid-80's, early-90's when avalon hill style historical games were all the rage... we would set up these massive games in our living rooms and play them all weekend... it was a culture... then came pc's and those same games were now online... they were quicker, easier, looked better, and eventually, they could even be played by email or network... what was the last ah-syle game you saw someone play? that entire genre has gone digital...

miniatures-based gaming has thus far resisted this sort of fate because there are sufficient numbers of people out there who got into the hobby for the models and not for the game... but if there's one thing i've learned over the last few years in this little corner of the internet, it's that bb is a game that is different from the gw "core" lines in that the game is played by a sizable contingent who flat-out doesn't give a damn about the minis, and it is a game that is played by very people in general, so the people who do like the lead have to concede themselves to pbem in order to get to play at all...

in the end, bb is poised precariously, and a top-notch electronic version could really and trully make the miniatures and the tabletop game a "cute" sideline to a virtual-first game...

bleah!

Deathwing · Post by **Deathwing** » Mon Nov 04, 2002 8:03 pm

BB is, for most of us, a social thing. Meeting people at Tournies, renewing older acquaintances, having a laugh, a few jars etc.
My fear is that a high quality PC (online) version would inevitably attract the kind of out and out power gamer that we all know and love.
A little elitist? Maybe...BB is (and remains) a beer and pretzels game.
Would a hugely successful computerised version necessarily be 'a good thing' for the game? Personally I'm highly dubious.

Dangerous Dave · Post by **Dangerous Dave** » Mon Nov 04, 2002 10:04 pm

Well I think GW like the current set up with amateur programmers (by this I mean unpaid non game professionals) working hard producing a variety of on-line tools. This has a number of benefits:-

It may bring players into the game either back from older editions or because they play other miniature games. Go on-line to give it a try. If they like it there's a decent chance they will buy the table top version.

It allows players to play much more widely internationally - how many Americans would have played Brits, Aussies play French etc without on-line play? I believe this generates interest as does TalkBB.

So as long as the on-line stuff is kept amateur and doesn't try to rip off GW's intellectual property, then GW will leave well alone. Sure they may lose some sales if an individual decides to only play on-line (and if they do this the individual is breaking the rules).... but I doubt that there are many players who only play on-line - and of those that only play on-line I bet most of those would prefer to play table top too but don't have the time.

Dave

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Mon Nov 04, 2002 10:58 pm

I currently pretty much play BB on-line as theris no-one local playing at the moment, so only play tabletop at tournies (Spiky yay!).

If given the choice it'll be tabletop anytime though. Not taking anything away from my opponents in PBeM (thanks Galak, DaFoola and Cerebus) but playing by email just doesn't have that spark you get playing face-to-face.

Of course, best case scenrio is to play tabletop and PBeM as I never (well, very unlikely to) play the 3 mentioned above at tabletop due to the little matter of a bit of water, and so would miss out of 3 great games and coaches.[/b]

Deathwing · Post by **Deathwing** » Tue Nov 05, 2002 12:30 am

Darkson wrote:I currently pretty much play BB on-line as theris no-one local playing at the moment, so only play tabletop at tournies (Spiky yay!).

If given the choice it'll be tabletop anytime though. Not taking anything away from my opponents in PBeM (thanks Galak, DaFoola and Cerebus) but playing by email just doesn't have that spark you get playing face-to-face.

Of course, best case scenrio is to play tabletop and PBeM as I never (well, very unlikely to) play the 3 mentioned above at tabletop due to the little matter of a bit of water, and so would miss out of 3 great games and coaches.[/b]

Totally agree. Pbem is a great addition to tabletop..the chance to play guys I wouldn't normally be able to. Was great playing McDeth at Spiky first round, having played via Pbem we already had a "rapport" and history (TBB notwithstanding of course!). Felt totally at home.
By the same token, it was great to meet Ronald Lokers at the Tulips tourney, shake hands and discuss a game we'd played via Pbem. Quality.

Met Chet at Res, never had chance to play before. We're embroiled in a tight Pbem game that's proving to be a lot of fun!

So Pbem's great, I enjoy it thoroughly, be hard to be without it now.
It brings possibilities that tabletop can't, simple as that. Tom, Ronald, SkiJunkie et all should be applauded for making the 'impossible' possible, and giving people the chance to play who otherwise wouldn't.

It's a brilliant thing it's own right, and it's brought me an awful lot of laughs.....but it isn't tabletop.

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Tue Nov 05, 2002 1:11 am

Deathwing wrote:It's a brilliant thing it's own right, and it's brought me an awful lot of laughs.....but it isn't tabletop.

Amen!

Galak

DaFrenchCoach · Post by **DaFrenchCoach** » Tue Nov 05, 2002 2:09 am

Lucien: I never thought before to the facts you mentioned... ASL, and others, were really beaten by starcraft and other close combat... You're right...

hum... I would give some euros for a solo version... just in order to play at home, alone

Ghost of Pariah · Post by **Ghost of Pariah** » Tue Nov 05, 2002 4:21 am

I have to agree with Deathwing. A really nice (i.e commercially sellable) PC version of Blood Bowl is just going bring alot of power gaming, 12 year old cheaters to the table. I was very excited when Lucas Arts released Jedi Outcast...imagine...3-D saber battles with thousands of ppl on-line! Lots of fun? nope not at all. Why? Because it took about 2 weeks for every single "gay wad" to figure out and exploit the killing moves. Soon every fight was people rolling behind each other until one of them got off the back slash kill move. LAME-O!
I think a PC version would be alot of chaos teams playing attrition games. BORING!

Now what I would like to see is a Blood Bowl animated series...picture it...
Season one would follow the Reikland Reavers and their climb to the Blood Bowl.
Season two would follow the Orcland Raiders and their greatest season.
Season three would be the adventures of the Chaos All Stars
etc etc etc.

It would rock! It would also generate interest in the game.