BB mag 4 & Vampires

Zombie · Post by **Zombie** » Tue Oct 22, 2002 12:30 am

I like vampires having to move first, but not vampire lord before other vampires. Needlessly complicates things, and takes too much decision out of the coach's hands. Making all vamps have to play first would be enough, but i'd prefer to see only 0-2 normal vamps without OFAB.

Pink Horror · Post by **Pink Horror** » Tue Oct 22, 2002 6:22 am

If vampires are the glory hounds, and the important actions happen at the end of the turn, wouldn't the vampires move after the thralls? I don't like rules which contradict their fluff. The description for a positive or negative attribute should go along with the natural game effect.

If you want a glory hound rule, make the vampires wait for the thralls to finish before they get to act. That would be more accurate. The fluff could also be supported by only allowing vampires to earn MVPs.

Pink Horror

Redfang · Post by **Redfang** » Tue Oct 22, 2002 8:01 am

Well, I played the old "Gold Edition" Vampires, and lost more matches than I won (though that might say something about my qualities as a coach too).

I just think the team would be both more interesting and more balanced if not all vampires were equal. So maybe you could have, say, Vampire runners, with

0-2 8348 reg, Hyp Gen/Ag 110k OFAB (comparable to High Elf catchers, weren't they 80k?)

And vampire blockers
0-4 6439 reg, Hyp Gen/Str 110k OFAB

With the Lord as normal, and thralls too.

This way there won't be more than 1 (lord) Str4+Ag4 player...

Might still be too powerfull though. I do think however that this team would be more interesting and challenging to play since there are now four different players in it.

I don't like the idea of human thralls though

Ghost of Pariah · Post by **Ghost of Pariah** » Tue Oct 22, 2002 4:26 pm

I'd rather see something like:

1 Vampire Lord 150K 6 5 4 8 hypnogaze, regen, OFABGen/Ag/St
0-2 Necrarch 100K 7 2 4 8 sure hands, regen Gen/ Pa
0-2 Blood Dragon 120K 6 4 3 8 fangs, regen, frenzy Gen/ St
0-2 Lahmian 100K 7 3 3 7 dodge, hypno gaze, regen Gen/ Ag
0-2 Strigoi 120K 5 4 2 8 foul appearance, thick skull, regen Gen/ St
0-12 thralls 40K 6 3 3 7 Gen

All vampires aquire bonehead when Lord is OFAB

I know the first thing I'm gonna hear is that there are too many positions but actually if you count them there is only the potential for 9 positional players on the pitch and the cost of doing that would be pretty steep.
The prices might be off because I just eyeballed it and made a best guess.

Zombie · Post by **Zombie** » Tue Oct 22, 2002 4:28 pm

That would be even more overpowered than the current version in BB mag 4, with so many AG4 and ST4 players on the field at the same time.

Ghost of Pariah · Post by **Ghost of Pariah** » Tue Oct 22, 2002 4:29 pm

How are you gonna have that many on the field at once? Besides they don't have both ST and AG on the same player.

Planatgenet · Post by **Planatgenet** » Wed Oct 23, 2002 2:40 pm

Why do they need to have a Vampire Lord at all. Chances are if they were an all powerful Vampire Lord they would be leading armies. Raising vast armies of undead, not playing Blood Bowl.

I personally like the idea of Thralls in a Vampire team it makes them a little different from the other undead teams.

I recon relatively weak Vampires would be playing Blood Bowl as in Mordheim. However after dedicating themselves to blood bowl for a few centuries they become truly grat players like the Blood Bowl Star Player. I dont like the idea of Wolves in the team. I at least like the idea that a player could go for the ball if he wanted to although he mayin fact choose to ignore it.

Vampire 0-4 Mv6 St4 AG3 Av8 120,000
Traints: Slow Learner (takes twice the number of star player points to gain a skill, Vampires dont train or show the same fevour as other creatures after all they have forever to achieve what they want), OFAB (At the beginning of the match and at half time roll a dice on a 1 the vamp has gone for refreshment, he must miss the next drive) not quite as harsh as current rule but doesnt have to be with vampires now less powerful, Hypnotic Gaze. Skills none (come on they are pretty good let them gain them like other races)
Black Guard 0-4 Mv5 St3 Ag2 Av10 110,000
Traints regenerate
Skills: Block (or something more appropiate Guard perhaps!!!). Reason For high armour is undead in past have always been tough these guys are completely covered in armour to top it off.
Thrall 0-12 Mv6 St3 AG3 Av7 50,000 (cannon fodder)

Perhaps for a little variation you can have zombies and skeletons as per traditional list but you cant have Thralls. They can convince themselves that there is a man in the Black Guard armour and the master is human isnt he!!!! But with zombies and skeletons they would finally see that something was wrong. Count Lilhill tried it when after a very bad match with the Dwarf Warhammers he lost half of his thralls. To make up the difference he raised a few skeletons for the next game which enraged the fans so much (they thought he was a good upstanding man) they lit there torches marched down to the pitch and staked him then and there.

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Wed Oct 23, 2002 2:40 pm

Okay ... anymore I don't post MBBL2 teams however in this case I'd like to throw out the MBBL2 vampire team. All these teams have posted only about 50/50 win type records and we haven't had anyone complain about the rosters yet.

Just something to think about in regards to Vampire balance. Rerolls at 70,000, no Big Guys, and no apothecaries at all for all of these teams.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Vampire - Blood Dragons
0-4 Vampire 130,000 6 4 3 9 Mighty Blow, Regenerate General, Strength
0-4 Grave Guard 90,000 5 3 3 9 Block, Regenerate General, Strength
0-4 Zombie 30,000 4 3 2 8 Regenerate General
0-12 Skeleton 30,000 5 3 2 7 Regenerate General

Special Notes:
Blood Dragons can never back down from a challenge - least of all from some near-sighted bloke in a zebra outfit! As a result, their Blood Dragon Head Coach must always Argue the Call if a penalty is called against their team.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Vampire - Lahmians
0-4 Vampire 160,000 6 4 4 8 Hypnotic Gaze, Regenerate General, Agility
0-4 Human Thrall 50,000 6 3 3 8 General
0-2 Zombie 30,000 4 3 2 8 Regenerate General
0-12 Skeleton 30,000 5 3 2 7 Regenerate General

Special Notes:
Such are the mind control powers of the Lahmians that they are frequently able to enslave champions of armies they have faced previously. This allows them to hire any one non-Big Guy LIVING player from any other team roster to serve as the Thrall of the Vampire Lord. This Thrall has the same cost, stats, and skill access he would normally have. Note that Undead players are immune to such control, and cannot be hired as Thralls.

Lahmian Vampires also receive a bonus of +1 to all Hypnotic Gaze rolls they make.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Vampire - Necrarchs
0-4 Vampire 140,000 6 4 3 8 Hypnotic Gaze, Regenerate General
0-4 Wight 90,000 6 3 3 8 Block, Regenerate General
0-12 Zombie 30,000 4 3 2 8 Regenerate General
0-12 Skeleton 30,000 5 3 2 7 Regenerate General

Special Notes:
The Necrarchs are the masters of necromantic magic, having trained under Nagash, great lord of the undead. Their skill allows them to raise more undead lieutenants to guide their forces. It also greatly improves their regenerative powers. All players on a Necrarch team receive an additional +1 to all regeneration rolls, so they recover from any casualty on a roll of 3 or more on a d6.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Vampire - Strigoi
0-4 Vampire 140,000 6 4 3 8 Razor Sharp Claws, Foul Appearance, Regenerate General
0-6 Ghoul 70,000 7 3 3 7 Dodge General, Agility
0-4 Zombie 30,000 4 3 2 8 Regenerate General
0-12 Skeleton 30,000 5 3 2 7 Regenerate General

Special Notes:
Strigoi Vampires can gain the Tattoos trait from BB Compendium #1 from any skill roll. (Tattoos = AV can never be modified by anything MB, Claw, Chainsaws, Fouling assists, etc.)
This team can never freeboot a Wizard.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Vampire - von Carsteins
0-2 Vampire 160,000 6 4 4 8 Tackle, Dodge, Hypnotic Gaze, Regenerate General, Strength, Agility
0-4 Wight 90,000 6 3 3 8 Block, Regenerate General
0-4 Human Thrall 50,000 6 3 3 8 General
0-4 Zombie 30,000 4 3 2 8 Regenerate General
0-12 Skeleton 30,000 5 3 2 7 Regenerate General

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Halloweenies
0-16 Zombie 30,000 4 3 2 8 Regeneration General
0-4 Werewolf 70,000 6 (7) 3 (4) 3 (2) 7 (8) None (Mighty Blow, Break Tackle) Were (Frenzy) General, Strength
0-4 Vampire 110,000 6 4 4 8 Hypnotic Gaze, Off for a Bite, Regenerate General, Strength, Agility
0-1 Mummy 110,000 3 5 1 9 Mighty Blow, Regenerate General, Strength
0-1 Flesh Monster 110,000 4 5 1 8 Mighty Blow, Juggernaut General, Strength

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now none of these teams have yet to break a 50% win record in the MBBL2. I'm not saying you'd have to use one of them exactly, but it gives a variety of different options that have worked for my league.

Galak

Planatgenet · Post by **Planatgenet** » Wed Oct 23, 2002 2:52 pm

And just to add a little more spice to the Vampires and show they are learning perhaps a few new skills that only they can aquire.

Wolf: once per game the vampire may turn into a wolf. This lasts whether the coach wants it to or not until a touchdown is scored or a the half ends. MV8 St4 AG5 Av7, Razor sharp fangs/Claws, Cant carry the ball, Sprint, Sure Feet.

Bat: once per game the Vampire may turn into a bat he can move up tp 12 in any direction on the field. If he is carrying the ball he automatically drops it

Perhaps a few other fun rules like a special handicap table for team playing Vampire team with a higher rating.
For example Garlic clove for one player, no Vampire can make a block against this player.....
Just an example, Blood Bowl is after all about having Fun they to need to spice up the Vampire team.

Ancalagon · Post by **Ancalagon** » Wed Oct 23, 2002 3:31 pm

It's impossible to get BB magazine 4. I tried but at motrolls said they don't have stock... I subscribed but first number will be BBmag5.

Ghost of Pariah · Post by **Ghost of Pariah** » Wed Oct 23, 2002 4:36 pm

I'd have to play with those teams myself, Galak, but at least I'm willing to play them!

Seriously though, they look pretty well balanced. Some minor gripes about each one but I'm sure that's just the old "10 coaches/11 opinions" thing. I say we start from these teams and then pester the hell out of the BBRC to change the vampire team!

vorner23 · Post by **vorner23** » Wed Oct 23, 2002 5:31 pm

In terms of balanced gameplay the vampire team is far from being statistically fair.

The OFAB rule basically sucks... excuse the pun. It detracts from the skill of the game and enables a random dice roll to make the largest difference.

Even taking OFAB into account the vamps team is far too good. Within a few games numerous skills can be added onto these killer players.

I just can't see it being that fun to play. Sure if it becomes a legal team you could play with vamps but is it really going to be that enjoyable?

Lastly what do people think of the Khemri team? Personally it seems a little slap happy with 4 mummies! Thats like having 4 ogres on the pitch, difference is that the mummies don't have bone head, and can use re-rolls. What does everyone else think?

Deacon · Post by **Deacon** » Wed Oct 23, 2002 6:17 pm

vorner23 wrote:In terms of balanced gameplay the vampire team is far from being statistically fair.

The OFAB rule basically sucks... excuse the pun. It detracts from the skill of the game and enables a random dice roll to make the largest difference.

Ogres have Bonehead, Minotaurs Wild Animal, why shouldn't Vampires have some negative trait, after all they have ST &, AG 4. Once you throw in a few skills you'll soon have a player with Chaos strength and the accuracy of an Elf for passing - and he doesn't have to gain double points like the Big Guys.

vorner23 · Post by **vorner23** » Wed Oct 23, 2002 6:43 pm

No thats not the point I was making!

Yes I agree Vamps should have some sort of negative trait, but it is their stats which seem overly unbalanced.

I think to have a load of players, (what is it potentially 6 vamps on one drive) with AGs and STs of 4 or 5 is just rididulous. OFAB is a bad negative trait. By this I mean it is just a dice roll.

Wild Animal for example can be taken advantage of by the opponent. (Forcing him to take losing blocks.) Even bonehead is a real negative from time to time.

The point I was trying to make was that, i think OFAB is just too flabby a rule. AND that the vamps are too good. I think most people so far agree with that?

Plus there is the disappointment that the vamp team isn't really any different. I know GW lose out again... they produce 2 teams which are very different the necro and khemri (both are interesting at least) and we complain that the vamp team is rubbish.......

but then it is! So sort it out Jervis!

vorner23 · Post by **vorner23** » Wed Oct 23, 2002 6:49 pm

BTW I would like to add that I think Plantagenet's rules were really cool.

He was only throwing them around as ideas, but they seem far more interesting than the most bearded team yet.... which the vamps seem to be.

Creating bloodlines for each team would be a nice idea but very complicated. I like the idea of toning down the stats of the vamps but giving them unique skills instead. The ability to shape change etc

Change into a wolf or bat! What a cool

. Well done Plantagenet.